Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Tracy White]

Way too fat to be standard gas cylinders. I took the plans for their word and don't know what else they could be other than smoke cylinders. Do you have the AOTS Intrepid book?

[Russ2146]

No, I'm just going from pdf photos he, Rdutnell, sent me. I wasn't aware that the bigger ships had smoke making devices.

[Tracy White]

I know for sure cruisers did. I've got some photos of them in the link below....they were generators though and not a cylinder.
http://researcheratlarge.blogspot.com/2 ... o-uss.html

[DennisJP]

Got a question. What is up with NAVSOURCE.ORG? Most of the day cannot even find the server when I Google them.

[Russ2146]

They're having server problems and say they may end up with new servers.

[Guest]

On some, if not all, Essex class, on the open galleries below the flight deck on the P&S sides above the fantail, there is a line of cylindrical objects. Rdutnell says that Raven indicates that they are smoke generator cylinders, but since smoke screens are a destroyer mission, I have difficulty with that. To me they look like acetylene gas cylinders. So what are they?

I thought that I recalled some of our WWII crewmen mentioning smoke cylinders on or near the fantail on SHANGRI-LA, so I asked them the question. Here is the response:

Yes, they were right outside the hatch to my shop (O2 level) port side on the fantail. Go up one set of steps and you were on an athwart-ship deck to the CO2 shop on the stbd side. These large stainless steel canisters (4 or 5) leaned over the outboard edge and in my opinion could have been used to make smoke from the ship. They also had bomb rack attachments for use by aircraft. No one ever gave any explanation nor came to inspect them. I leaned on them all the time.

Hope this helps and does not muddy the waters more.

[Rdutnell]

It doesn't muddy the issue, and your response, allowed me to visualize the responder leaning on them, making them more real to me. They aren't just unknown bits of plastic on the model. Maybe I will have to throw him in on my model leaning on one.

Thanks!

[Michael Vorrasi]

On some, if not all, Essex class, on the open galleries below the flight deck on the P&S sides above the fantail, there is a line of cylindrical objects. Rdutnell says that Raven indicates that they are smoke generator cylinders, but since smoke screens are a destroyer mission, I have difficulty with that. To me they look like acetylene gas cylinders. So what are they?

I thought that I recalled some of our WWII crewmen mentioning smoke cylinders on or near the fantail on SHANGRI-LA, so I asked them the question. Here is the response:

Yes, they were right outside the hatch to my shop (O2 level) port side on the fantail. Go up one set of steps and you were on an athwart-ship deck to the CO2 shop on the stbd side. These large stainless steel canisters (4 or 5) leaned over the outboard edge and in my opinion could have been used to make smoke from the ship. They also had bomb rack attachments for use by aircraft. No one ever gave any explanation nor came to inspect them. I leaned on them all the time.

Hope this helps and does not muddy the waters more.

Actually, CO2 cylinders makes sense, but not for making smoke. Recall that in preparing a carrier for air attack, all av-gas lines were purged with CO2 and a CO2 blanket was laid down in the av-gas tanks.

[ShangHist]

I thought that I recalled some of our WWII crewmen mentioning smoke cylinders on or near the fantail on SHANGRI-LA, so I asked them the question. Here is the response:

Yes, they were right outside the hatch to my shop (O2 level) port side on the fantail. Go up one set of steps and you were on an athwart-ship deck to the CO2 shop on the stbd side. These large stainless steel canisters (4 or 5) leaned over the outboard edge and in my opinion could have been used to make smoke from the ship. They also had bomb rack attachments for use by aircraft. No one ever gave any explanation nor came to inspect them. I leaned on them all the time.

Hope this helps and does not muddy the waters more.[/quote]

Actually, CO2 cylinders makes sense, but not for making smoke. Recall that in preparing a carrier for air attack, all av-gas lines were purged with CO2 and a CO2 blanket was laid down in the av-gas tanks.[/quote]

Sorry, I forgot to logon before my first response yesterday.

I asked our WWII crewmen about the canisters being used for the av-gas system purge. Here is the response:

I don�t think so. They certainly were not marked that way. I do not believe they were on the Stbd side but they could have been. I spent little time there in the CO2 shop but knew the black shoes were converting it to a carpenter shop. I can�t remember if they were on the Franklin because of all the other damage in that area. I don�t believe they were used for purging. Never heard anything about that or saw anyone checking the tanks. They should appear in any aft photos on port side.

The reference to FRANKLIN was because when the damaged FRANKLIN arrived at Pearl in March '45, crewmen from SHANGRI-LA were sent aboard FRANKLIN to salvage usable equipment and document and photograph damage in the specific area that they worked aboard SHANGRI-LA.

Hope this helps.

[Rdutnell]

This thread has really been fascinating. Even experts and veterans are having a hard time figuring out what some thing is. I hate to interupt it, but I am conducting a poll and I want everyone's opinion on graphics and text on a model frame.

As some of you know, I am currently working on a 1/350 scale model of the USS Bennington (CV-20) I am building to simulate the launching of an airstrike on Kanoya Field on June 8, 1945, three days after a typhoon buckled the forward 25 feet of her flight deck rendering the catapults inoperable. Damaged as she was, Bennington was still able to launch 11 F4U Corsairs, armed with 500 lb bombs, and 26 F6F Wildcats, each armed with two 260 lb bombs, in 14 minutes.

I have already built the frame and am currently sanding on it in preparation for two or three coats of polyurethane. I have also created decals for the text and graphics I want to display on the frame, and am now trying to figure out the best way to present them.

I WANT YOUR INPUT!!!

But first, so you have an idea of what the decals look like on the frame, below are 2 pix of a test I performed to make sure that the small text would be legible.

The letters are 0.1� tall and can easily be read from 3 feet or so on the light oak of the frame. It will look even better after the wood has 2 or 3 coats of polyurethane on it and the decals are installed properly.

NOW I WANT YOUR INPUT!!!
Below are AutoCad plots of some proposed layouts. The images were exported from PDF�s printed to scale in 11�x17� format. The front and back sides are over 37� long and obviously would not fit on one sheet, so they are broken into three parts; left, center, and right, with the left on top, the center in the middle and the right on the bottom. Good match points for the front side are the Bennington logos.

There are 4 options for the front, WHICH OPTION DO YOU PREFER?

OPTION I:

OPTION II:

OPTION III:

OPTION IV:

The main question is: Should the front contain the graphics that lay the basis for the model display, with the medals and air groups on the sides or should it contain the air groups and medals, with the typhoon and air strike info on the sides.

If you prefer either Option I or Option II for the front, WHICH OPTION DO YOU PREFER FOR THE SIDES?

OPTION I:

OPTION II:

If you prefer Option III or Option IV, the sides will look like this:

For all options the back looks like this:

Let me know what you think! I will appreciate it.
I have also posted this request for feedback on my build site (viewtopic.php?f=59&t=106774&p=515210#p515210) and Main Forum Site too. The more feedback I can get the better.

Thanks!

[Capt652]

On some, if not all, Essex class, on the open galleries below the flight deck on the P&S sides above the fantail, there is a line of cylindrical objects. Rdutnell says that Raven indicates that they are smoke generator cylinders, but since smoke screens are a destroyer mission, I have difficulty with that. To me they look like acetylene gas cylinders. So what are they?

Don't know for sure, but I read somewhere that port side cylinders were acetylene and O2 for the workshops, and starboard side was for smoke generation. On the starboard side there is a very prominent slide/chute from the gallery deck catwalk to that intermediate deck where the cylinders were stored. I found somewhat clear pictures of both sides of Shangri-la, showing starboard side with cylinders with a tapered top much like the shape of a projectile, and port side looked like welding tanks.

Just my 2 cents.

Timm

[Rdutnell]

Hi All,

I thought I would chime in on the canister issue, since Russ started it because of questions I asked him. Below are cropped pictures of all the pix have found showing the canisters of concern. I found more shots of the starboard side than the port side so I�ll start with them.

Ticonderoga (ignore the circles, they are the stern and wake lights from another series of questions I had)

Shangri La

Hancock

Princeton (these are t he ones Raven identifies as smoke-dispensing canisters)

Intrepid

Yorktown

And now the port side shots I found
Intrepid

Shangri La

Ticonderoga

And one aft shot of Yorktown

Comments: First, concerning the starboard side, the first thing I noticed was that the canisters are not all the same. The ones on Ticonderoga, Shangri La and Hancock look a lot different than the ones on Princeton, which look nothing like the ones on Intrepid, with Yorktown�s being different still (though they are hard to see). Port side shots are limited and not as clear, but it looks like on Intrepid you can see the tops of acetylene tanks (Maybe?), and again the canisters on Shangri La look different than the ones on Ticonderoga (though this could be due to the picture quality).

I included the aft shot of Yorktown because it looks like you can see the slide/chute from the gallery deck catwalk that Capt652 mentioned was on the starboard side, looks to be on both sides. Other ships, of course, don�t seem to have this feature (or at least not that I have noticed.) So, maybe, like everything else, the slide and canisters varied from ship to ship and over time. Could one ship have smoke canisters in one location and welding (O2 and acetylene) canisters in another location, and another ship have them somewhere else? Or could the same ship move them around depending on need? Or could the canisters themselves have changed over time? Of course, I have no idea, I�m just throwing it out there.

CHEERS!!!

[Michael Vorrasi]

Might they be O2 canisters used to fill the aircraft O2 tanks? The location looks tailor made to facilitate jettison over the side in emergencies due to volatility of the contents.

[Russ2146]

Well, O2 does not have the same characteristics as acetylene. It does not really explode but makes other things burn hotter, hence the oxy-acetylene welding torch.
Viewed enlarged some of the starboard cylinders appear to be attached to manifolds and on some ships don't. On some ships, the manifold is not readily apparent.

[Tracy White]

I included the aft shot of Yorktown because it looks like you can see the slide/chute from the gallery deck catwalk that Capt652 mentioned was on the starboard side, looks to be on both sides.

Just so you know, the starboard aft shot of Yorktown shows rafts on ramps and not canisters. Early feature she and Essex had.

[keithhufnagel]

Tracy, while you guys are talking about that photo of 'so called' Yorktown: in my year of research I had seen this photo attributed to Yorktown before but was never able to confirm that she carried the two stern mounted underslung 20MM gun tubs as shown in that photo. If you know this is true for sure (accurate) please tell me when, where, and for how long. As far as I know it's a mislabeled photo. I do not beleive it's Yorktown. However with the Essex class, one never knows. As for the the so-called 'chutes' on the sides you guys referred to, I know them to be steel support structures for gear on the catwalks (port and starboard) on Yorktown. Other ships of the 'class' had them also but only (1) starboard as far as I know. Yorktown carried hers to the end of WWII. (P.S) When is your book coming out? Can hardly wait! Have fun modeling.

[Dick J]

If you check the photo above labeled "03-HANCOCK STRBRD.jpg", the number visible on the hull is "16" rather than "19".

[Tracy White]

Dick's right; the flight deck's also wrong for Hancock. She never had the original flight deck length during the war.

Keith: Yorktown had those aft 20mm galleries, but not for very long. That location was prone to vibration at high speeds, so the galleries were moved "around the corner" where the structure was stiffer. They put them back on the short hulls when the deck was shortened; this is one of the ways one can tell ships or when they were shot (Ticonderoga had a war cruise for example where she had the forward deck restored but not the aft, so if you can see the Mk 51 director tubs on the flight deck corners but the aft gun tubs hanging, you know it was after her October 1944 overhaul but before her February 1945 one). This I mention mainly for those who hadn't known about this little detail.

Back on topic; I have two photos from Steve Wiper (meaning I can't post them here as proof), one is labelled CV-10 and is from April of 1943 and it shows the aft gun tubs. It also *does not* have anything resembling "10" or "Yorktown" in view, so it could be Essex or Lexington, but I trust Steve at least got it from a folder marked "Yorktown" in some way. There's a later one, shot right before she left for the Pacific, that is essentially the same shot. In this one the galleries themselves are gone, but one of the catwalks leading up to the port side one is still there and is "cut off" abruptly, indicating something was removed. It also doesn't have anything distinguishing one ship from another on it, but if the date is correct (July) it's after Essex went to the Pacific herself (May).

Unfortunately the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard records I've gone through only had Yorktown's late 1944 overhaul records. Some other ships had earlier work forwarded on from Norfolk, but Yorktown did not. Based on this, I'd say that it's likely that she had the galleries at one point, but they definitely did not exist during her Pacific service, and it's questionable as to whether they lasted long enough to even be on the shakedown.

[Dick J]

They put them back on the short hulls when the deck was shortened;

Tracy, I think you meant that they put the 20MM back under the round down on the first long hulls, rather than short. I know for a fact that you understand this, so suspect that you just typed it in too fast.

[Tracy White]

Yup, that would be a classic brain fart!