The Ship Model Forum

Hello, gentleman!

My grandfather served on the USS Randolph during the Second World War. Though I haven't built a ship kit since I was a kid, your amazing builds have inspired me, and I'd like to honor my grandfather by building a Randolph in 350 scale. Which kit would you recommend for converting to the Randolph; Trumpeter Ticonderoga or Trumpeter Hancock?

Thank you!

Kits are the same...not really an advantage either way. I can't say that the decal sheet of either would be more helpful, either.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

If you are really thinking about doing a Randolph, you might want to get these as soon as you can before they sell out. I am not sure that GMM will run another set.

http://www.goldmm.com/ships/350-7D.htm

Good Luck!

MM

Thanks! I had been looking at those and finally pulled the trigger along with their Essex PE set.

Im trying to build a Dragon 1/700 CV-19. Could someone confirm that the above Photo shows Hancock? Would be a nice reference for the short deck.

Your post didn't show the photo he posted and I'm not looking through 95 pages to figure out which one it is. Could you try again? If you click on the title of his particular post, that will give you the direct link to it and you can post that here.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thank you Tracy for responding so fast.

The picture was shown in his post from Aug 05 on page 83.



Thank you in advance
Stefan

Yeah, that's Hancock; the horse shoe on the Helldiver tail is one sign, and the 20mm galleries underneath the aft end of the flight deck is the other.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

ok, so one problem for me is solved as this picture provides a really good reference for the aft end. One huge problem I encountered is the port side flight deck notch. I have seen on a Tigonderoga port side image that the roller doors under the notch were different from the early essex class carriers having the port hangar deck catapult. On one photo it looks like there are only two big roller doors left. As the Dragon kit only provides the standard hull for all carries (dragon only made the bow section different) it is difficult to find the landmarks to judge dimention and position of the notch. Does anyone of you have additional references or drawings available?

I'll check when I get home, but I think the Alan Raven Essex Class Carriers Book has a set that shows them. Additionally, a ways back in this thread I posted a photo of this area on Hancock. Finally, what time period are you doing? The large notch in the flight deck was filled in during her April-May 1945 overhaul & repair.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

thank you tracy for beeing so active and helpful.

im building her before her trip back to pearl harbour, somewhere between Nov 44 and March 45.

I was looking up your posts back until 2007 when most of your picture links start to be broken. Found a photo you posted from that section on CV-16. However, it seems that trumpeter got it right, sigh...
I will check navsource for other post 44 delivered carriers to find out, but if its not a perfect aligned side shot i will have difficulties in scratch building that modified roller doors.

For the time beeing I just modified on the 1/700 Dragon kit:
- cut off the bow 40mm because I didnt like the shape, preparing some scratch build ones
- cut out the starbord side doors (the big ones) front and the missing back one
- cutted the elevator pits of the hangar deck to accomodate the wood surface elevator (middle) and to scratchbuild the elevator pit at the front.
- cut the port rollerdoor section behind the forward hangar deck sponson to align it with the galley deck wall (hope the term is right)
next things to do:
- modify the bridge to allow the ladder to be added on the deck side (1st to second level)
- modify the port rollerdoor section behind the forward hangar deck sponson
- cut out the flight deck
yet unsolved:
I did not decide about detailing the catwalks and about adding railing.... any advice?

Thank you very much
Stefan

I didn't have time to go through all the pages, but I will have time to re-post that photo tomorrow night (working late tonight)

Catwalks - my scale is 1/350th and I haven't really thought about 1/700th. I'll try and write a bit more tomorrow night.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hmm, seems Eduard got their notch for the 350scale Trumpy kit somewhat wrong. Compare

with http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/USS_Ticonderoga_%28CV-14%29_Hampton_Roads_overhead_30_May_1944.jpg.

Seems the 20mm portside gallery have to be more close to the deck edge elevator.

Yes - doing a correct notch wouldn't fix the kit unless they included a deck piece. Here's the photo I mentioned that shows the revised roller doors; note that the piping was laid out around the original plan for the doors. That and the watertight door to the right should help you place things somewhat.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

indeed, that is a very nice picture. Tells a lot and I already did my estimates. From my calculations the wide doors would be around 4.2 meters wide (13-14 ft).
Thank you alot

Tracy,
Hi, do you mind sharing the evidence that you have that the notch was filled in during her Pearl Harbor refit. I only ask because I've also seen claims that her (Hannah's) flight deck was lengthened but I found a picture that shows that this was not the case. I am building a 1/350 Hancock and was going to do a 1945 and did a lot of research...of course then I changed my mind and decided on a 44' with that crazy "paint job" which means... I had to undo a lot of conversion.

Now to the notch location...really??? Now I've got something to fret about!!! I guess I'm going to rework the whole fwd flight deck now that this has been pointed out My notch turned out really good too...good thing I got an extra deck piece.

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-Rob <><

Unfortunately I can't at this point.

I scanned in the Arpil-May '45 Departure report last year; for those who've not heard of those before, the departure report was filed after the completion of work and listed all of the work that was done, or was not completed. That notch was a quest of sorts, and I finally found the departure report. I was in Alaska last week and was looking forward to getting back and saying "page X, April-May Departure report," however when I did get back, I can't actually find the entry that reports this. Page 17 of 43 is missing, so it's possible I lost it somehow (I'll grab it again my next trip), but I can't specifically state the page number or exact wording at this point, unfortunately. The best I can do at this point is from page 33:

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thank you Tracy,
After Stefan pointed out the notch, I started doing my own measurement and came up w/ the same positioning as his outline. I never considered that the notch was not just an extension of the flight deck angle but rather approx 22’ aft. When the notch is measured at this location on the Trumpeter kit I noticed that it would literally come all the way to the bulkhead… That’s when I took a closer look at your picture above along with this picture that I had which I never felt was “conclusive” in clarity.

However in your picture you can clearly see that the notch has in fact been “fixed”. It is very conclusive, you can see the where the 20mm gun positions were left in there after position (as compared to most other Tico’s). So I'd say when you compare the two pictures it's pretty clear that it was part of the overhaul as you stated.
This had always been a question of mine because the flight deck clearly was never lengthened as it was on Ticonderoga and the Mk 51 positions moved outboard to the catwalks. Also of interesting note is that the flight deck level 40mm Guns adjacent the 5"/38 positions were NOT lowered and should still have their cut-outs Good lord the Hancock certainly was a unique carrier.
So I spent about two-hours carefully cutting the forward flight deck off of my Hancock and prepping for a new section. The position of the notch will now call for some real care to redo and yet be able to still use the catwalks in the Eduard kit.
I have not seen this picture on this forum yet so I thought I'd include it too; it is Hancock probably late 1945 Operation Magic Carpet returning to Alameda CA.

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-Rob <><

I have a post-war photo of Hancock in mothballs at PSNY. (Got it from Rick Davis) It shows the short deck and the filled-in notch area. Hanna's uniqueness continued through the initial modernizations. To the best of my knowledge, she was the only SCB-27C to retain the tie-down strips in the deck (at least, pre SCB-125), and the only -27C to put to sea with the bow twin 3" mounts in place.

Hi Dick,
Would you be able to share that picture?

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-Rob <><