The Ship Model Forum

Hello guys, especially Tracy I think!

I have in my stash for a (distant) future project a 1/350 Trumpeter Yorktown. I intend to build the model using the superb Pontos full upgrade set. I understand the Pontos set can be used to build other late war versions of the ships of the class...

So what I would like to do is to build one of the Essex-carriers at the Battle for Leyte Gulf – Cape Engano. If I'm not mistaken and please correct me if I'm wrong this was the last carrier confrontation of the war and it ended Japanese carrier aviation capability sinking some carriers including the fleet carrier Zuikaku.

If I'm correct the Essex carriers involved were Essex, Intrepid, Franklin and Lexington. I know the latter three can be built from the Trumpeter Yorktown using the Pontos set but what about a 1944 Essex? Can the Essex also be built this way or should I get the Essex model with the Essex Pontos set for this? Or is it another combination required using the Trumpeter Essex, Yorktown or Franklin with the Pontos Essex or yorktown set?

I'm looking to do the Essex in the camo sheme as Chris Toops did it superbly a few years ago! Is this correct for October 1944?

Thank you very much!!!

Essex is a bit of an oddball. She was essentially unchanged from between her March/April 1944 overhaul until the end of the war. That means she missed getting some of the later AA guns, and never had her catapults squared away (She went to war with a single H2 catapult and was never upgraded - there were two H4 catapults waiting for her in Puget Sound, but she never made it back until after the war, and she was just mothballed with the single cat at that point).

So, none of the kits will give you a 1944 Essex out of the box. If you start with the CV-9 kit, you'll need to remove the quad 40mm that was on the forward end of the island and extend the flag plot as well as scratch build the sponson and two quad 40 mounts on the port side that were installed where the port-side hangar cat was on the other ships (at least, there's other changes, but those are the two two off of the top of my head). The Franklin and Yorktown kits will have you fill in and re-scribe the deck where the port-side cat is and scratch build a new single quad 40mm mount on the stern as opposed to the double mount arrangement that the later fits had.

Dazzle camouflage from April 1944 at least through the action. Of the four you listed, Lexington was the only not in Dazzle.

These details are presuming you want that much work.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Great info! I'll think it over...

Thank you very much!

And you/we can thank Rdutnell for making those CADs: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=152798

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De quoi s'agit-il?

that's good to know. Pavel didn't mention outsourcing...

I but they could sell a few of them in 1/96 scale for those who build WW II carriers in the 1/96 scale. I know a few that have the Essex class in 1/96 scale as for me I have a modern carrier in that scale.

Duane

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Harry S. Truman CVN 75, George W. Bush CVN 77
Makin Island LHD 8, Oak Hill LSD 51
Vincennes CG 49, Port Royal CG 72
Cole DDG 67, The Sullivans DDG 68
Bainbridge DDG 96, Jason Dunham DDG 109
Arthur W. Radford DD 968, Kidd DDG 993
Chicago CG 11

Now those are some BIG models. Even the Tilly crane would be just over 3" tall with a 2-3/4" wheel base length. At that scale it would need to be redesigned to include more detail, but it would be pretty darn cool!

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Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing

I just purchased the Pontos sets for the Essex and want to do one of the Essex class in a dazzle camouflage scheme. So I've narrowed down my choices to either the Essex in after her May '44 refit (I have a Trumpeter Yorktown that I can swap the islands and use the early island to do the Lexington after her Dec '43 refit), the Hornet, the Franklin in MS 32/6a - 3a combo, the Bunker Hill prior to her early '45 refit, or the Wasp prior to her refit in June '45.

I am leaning towards either the Franklin or the Bunker Hill but need some verification since there is a lot of conflicting information. For the Franklin in the MS 32/6a - 3a scheme, from photos it appears that she has a late island, the hanger deck catapult platforms removed, the same radar fit as the Hornet, and the two quads on the starboard aft hanger deck. Is this correct?

For the Bunker Hill, in photos of her completed, she had a typical early Essex radar fit but in pictures of her in MS 32/6a (none of which are very clear), it appears that her SK radar has been moved to the starboard side of the funnel and I can't make out what is on the forward part of the mainmast platform, I'm guessing it's either a SM or SC-1. Can anyone confirm what her radar fit was during this time period? As well, she wasn't completed with the starboard aft quads but did she receive these prior to her refit in '45? Thank you for any insights.

Sorry if these questions were already asked before.

Hi everyone!

I had a couple questions regarding the USS Essex.

1. Does anyone have any photos or references they can point me to that show the Essex in a "dazzle" scheme? I have the 1/350 Trumpeter kit and want to do something other than an all blue look, especially since my wife noticed that it will be on the same shelf as the USS Laffey and that little guy would disappear in all of that blue.

2. When the doors on the hanger deck are opened, were there railings that were there to prevent an accidental man overboard? I have a lot of extra railing and I want to open the hanger up and maybe even light it up.

3. This one is more for anyone that knows the aftermarket kits. Does any of the aftermarket PE sets include the girderwork that lines the ceiling of the Hanger?

Thanks Guys!

BTW, I am currently deployed in Afghanistan and I am killing time researching for the USS Essex and the new USS New York kit. I want to start when I finish my year here.

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On the Bench: 1/350 Tamiya Yukikaze (On hold while deployed )

Plannned: 1/350 Trumpeter USS Essex with all the trimmings
1/350 Gallery Models USS New York

Hi Northwestern,

First, thank you for your service.

Second, you have come to the right place for assistance in building your Essex. There are a lot of really knowledgeable people out there on both modeling techniques and naval architecture. I'm not one of them, but I can answer your first question. Here's a link to the best source around (that I know of)

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/usn_cv.htm

Also, I think that there were railings put up when the doors were open, but I don't think there is girderwork PE available, but there may be.

For pictures, these are good places to start

http://historylink101.com/ww2_navy/archive/index.html

http://www.navsource.org/

Another good site is here

http://navypedia.org/page/7849

Good luck!

_________________
Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing

There are photos on Essex's Navsource page that show some of the dazzle camouflage. There are plans in a couple of books I have - I'm at work and don't have them with me, so I'll wait until I can verify before I list the titles.

Other shots:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... e_1944.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... w_1944.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... n_1944.jpg

Yes, there were railings used when the doors were up, at least some times. Not in all cases as far as I've seen. These railings were chain; there was a center post and then they were fastened to the edge, so there should be a little droop. Two chains, one at the top of the stanchion, and the other about midway up from the deck.

The Essex class had overhead beams and not a girder structure and more offices in the overhead than the Yorktown class, so the PE for this isn't really necessary. Plate III of CV-13 Franklin's 1946 Damage Report and some of the gallery-deck drawings in the ship's War Damage REport may help with the hangar bay overhead structure, as well as some of the photos and sketches on the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard CV-13 War Damage Report. Ticonderoga's 1945 War Damage Report also has some hangar bay photos that may prove "inspirational" even though the ships were slightly different.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the info, I am starting to compile a lot of this in a folder so when I go home on R&R on Oct, I can print a lot out and start preparing the model room.

I had a talk with my dad since he is going to build me a base for it and he asked if I was going to light the hanger bay, and so I am going to research that. I read somewhere that you can buy micro LED's that do multiple colors, and I was thinking a white/red combo to simulate lighting at night or day. I know they would close the doors though at night.

I also had another idea, I want to show some activity obviously and was wondering if the Cockpit detail sets for the 1/350 planes allow a canopy open option, or do I have to scratch an open canopy

On a side note, I am deployed with the US Air Force in support of the Advisor mission to the Afghan Air Force, we have two Navy Captains here and when they heard me talking some WWII Naval History, they were so amazed at how much I knew, they asked me why I wasn't in the Navy.

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On the Bench: 1/350 Tamiya Yukikaze (On hold while deployed )

Plannned: 1/350 Trumpeter USS Essex with all the trimmings
1/350 Gallery Models USS New York

If this is not known about, some nice colour film here of CV-17 'Bunker Hill' loaded with Corsairs, in April 1945, as well as CL-90 and other ships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B98dF18vie4

For what it's worth, that's Air Group 84, whose composition (at the time) was listed as follows:

CAG - F4U-1D
VB-84 - 13 SB2C-4E
VF-84 - 25 F4U-1D + 4 F6F-5N + 5 F6F-5P
VT-84 - 15 TBM-3
VMF-221 - 17 F4U-1D

Looks like the deck parking is 4 x F4U starting on the port, with 1 SB2C on the starboard deck edge. Either TBMs or F6Fs parked next to the island. I can't quite make it out, but for a period of time Bunker Hill had an outlined "17" painted on the roof of #3 turret*. The Kingfishers in this film didn't quite get close enough to see if that's what we're seeing or just sun glint from the flat surface.



* I know, technically a gun housing and not a turret. Work with me!

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

With regards to the first part - they also had blackout curtains they could put in place (I don't have the specific frame numbers off the top of my head) so they could segment the hangar and keep one portion lit while others were open.

The White Ensign PE sets give you the cockpit, but no canopy frames (see instructions).

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I want to build the Intrepid CV-11 as it looked in October 1944 when the air group sank the Musashi. I've have Steve Backer's excellent book on modeling the Essex class carriers and have bought the 1/350 Trumpeter Essex class model thinking It would be a good stand-in for the Interpid. Am now wondering if I should have bought the 1/350 Yorktown 1944 instead? Since the Intrepid I want to due is late 1944. I have a couple of original Naval items owned by a Helldiver pilot and want to display the model with his service cap and shoulder boards. He was awarded the Navy Cross for his bombing of the Musashi.

Can you point me in the right direction as to what model would the right for October 1944? Jean Barby, in Steve's book, mentions using a base kit from Trumpeter for his Intrepid but does say which one nor does he say what year his Intrepid represents.

Appreciate any help,
Charlie Duckworth

Hi Charlie,


To do a late 1944 Intrepid I think that the Trumpeter Yorktown CV-10 or Franklin CV-13 kit would be the better bet. You need both Cats and the new bridge/island for that era Intrepid. I believe that she recieved those mods in the Spring of 1944 after she got torpedoed during the Kwajelan/Truk Air Strikes. I am not sure how much of the AA upgrade that she got along with the catapults and new island structure.


Good Luck,

Mark

Possibly stupid question - I used the search but didn't seem to find what I was wondering, if it's been answered forgive me. On Essex ships, particularly Yorktown in 1945, how do the hangar doors open on either side of the forward elevator? They appear to roll up, with the vertical beams seperating each door remaining intact. However, I've seen photos of athwartship catapults that appear to be launching aircraft out of these doors. How would that work?

In short - I already cut out the entire opening on my CV-10 and am wondering if I would need to insert styrene back in for the vertical beams in the opening.

Thanks!
Kyle

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I don't have any good photos on my laptop, but the vertical guides for the roller doors were on a hinge at the top and folded INTO the hangar, resting up against the overheads/beams. So, they could be raised or lowered pretty quickly without needing to get out out a ladder, etc.

*EDIT*

OK, scratch that - I've seen that before, but I just remembered a set of photos I have on my laptop with Tico rearming in late 1944 and the vertical posts are removed. I have no documentation for if this was an earlier or later feature, preferred methods, etc., but I've seen it both ways.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thank you so much! That makes much more sense considering aircraft/large object loading too. Wide open they will stay for viewing and, ehem, builder's sake.

Kyle

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