The Ship Model Forum

Modelling the Yorktown CV10 in early 1945, it appears that on the starboard gun tub off the flight deck just ahead of the rearmost tub, that there is 3 Oerlikons. Here's the area I'm talking about.



Here is a bigger photo where you can see it looks like 3 of them, despite AOTS drawings showing only 2. I also know that 20mm outfit was different for different ships and towards the end of the war were cramming them in anywhere open.

http://www.asisbiz.com/usn/CV-10-USS-Yo ... 44-01.html

Another shot seems to look like 3 splinter shields as well here

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/10.htm About a 1/3rd way down, NS021065

Zoomed in



For the life of me I could not find the direct source for the last photos above either - apologies, I just used the saved image on my HD. I'm just trying to make sure my eyes are (or aren't) playing tricks on me.

Thanks!
Kyle

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The last photo has a copy on Navsource's Yorktown page: http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/10.htm

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De quoi s'agit-il?

Thanks Timmy! *facepalm* Don't know why I didn't check Navsource. I have corrected my post, though I left the zoomed in one if that's alright.

However - even MORE to possibly confirm my idea! In Warship's Data No 5 towards the back on page 57 it shows the armament and years in which it was fitted. Late 44' (which would have been the same iteration of her) has 61 single 20mm down on the page.

Adding them up via photos...

x7, x6, x6, x6, x2 on port starting with bow.

x5, x10, x?, x2 on starboard starting with bow.

x6, x6, on starboard island.

x1, x1, upper level island on either side near searchlights.

If my math is right, that leaves the questionable one with 3. This of course, assumes that data is correct and that there is not an extra one squeezed in somewhere else. I am almost positive I have all the flight deck numbers correct (except for this rear tub in question), my only insecurity rests on the island itself. Am I correct with those numbers?

Thanks!
Kyle

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Yes, she had three 20mms in that tub
Dates to 1943, actually, and I'm pretty sure that's a "Jocko" Clark driven change because he wanted LOTS of AA guns.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
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You pass on knowledge so effortlessly! Thank you, then three she will get. I must have studied photos, drawings, and info for over two hours today. I even left them off the model until confirmation could be attained.

Thanks!
Kyle

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I have certain advantages... I have spent a LOT of time looking at and reading up on these ships both in book form but also at three different NARA facilities. Some call me..... essex-ive

But honestly, I just hope I can get the damned book done so I don't feel guilty about it any more.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hello all...and happy new year to all of you!

I have sort of bad news righ from the start here...just got off the phone with Revell! The planned 1/350 WWII Intrepid (05124) is not going to be released. Revell canceled the plans...! What I heard from their sales department was that the carrier would have been a co-operation project, no Revell specific new mold. So basically a beefed up Trumpeter ship...So all in all the news is bad but not too bad since Trumpeter's carriers are available for relativly small money already.

cheers
Uwe

Ok, 'nother silly question. I know on most Measure's, they call for Deck Blue on all horizontal surfaces. However, the top of the 5" mounts aren't *perfectly* horizontal and I see quite a bit of conflicting info on this. Hard to tell in the few post 44' photos I have of CV10, but this one is great for her tops.

Unless it's totally washed out, looks like the top of the 5" mounts are whatever the camo is supposed to be (In this case, haze gray). Is that right? Is that rare, are they usually on deck blue?



Kyle

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Hello again

I am looking for a picture of the starboard side of the island on CV19 Hancock in WWII, especially on the layout and position of the trash burner pipe, a feature that seems to be individuel on each ship and so far has not been captured in the kits available.

thanks
Uwe

Hello...and some more questions!

1. Have found a picture of Bunker Hill's island which is dated to the time right after WWII after she was repaired and before she disappeared into "mothballs" never to be seen on the open sea again until she was scaped (what a waist to scrap a new ship)
Around the funnel she is now missing the wide platforms with the single 20mm and the search light. Similar pictures I found from Shangi La and Princton from after the war. Was this done to all remaining ships right after the war and before they were put away for the first time...and when was that done first? Already during overhauls in 45 or later?




2. On the below picture of Bunker Hill during her last days you can see some things that look like huge ducts or boilers left and right of the outboard elevator. I have seen those on other ships but do not remember on which ones. Bunker Hill did not have those when she was active. What are those and which ships had then when, please? Dragon has those in their 700 kits, parts M2 and M3


Finally a nice picture of Intrepid during peace times...was she was on her way to be moth balled or on the way back to the dock for modernisation? The quad 40mm are all covered already...still?


cheers
Uwe

PS: Found pics of Hancock's island starboard side, not too good ones but it seems the "trash pipe" is straight and a little bit aft on the middle of the funnel...

Those "large ducts or boilers" you mention are part of the post war hangar deck ventilation mod that all the CV-9s received to alleviate severe flaws in the original design that were highlighted in battle and large fires. If I remember correctly they had a central duct that ran the length of the hangar deck and that was too vulnerable to damage.

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Cliffy, if you look at the Intrepid photo above, the original intake is the vertical black rectangle just aft of the port-after 5" guns, in the panel between the hangar deck and the flight deck. From there, it went under the armored hangar deck and ran forward the length of the ship. The vulnerability was that it had a tendency to suck in the toxic smoke from fires and spread it through the whole ship. By segmenting the intakes, at least some of the ship actually got fresh air during major damage incidents. Bunker Hill's major fire was one of the incidents showing the flaw. Many of her casualties died from the smoke.

Ships were not modernized before mothballs. Cases in point; Hancock was mothballed with the short deck and Essex still with only a single H2 catapult on the flight deck. If repair was needed (Franklin & Bunker Hill) that was done and the ship brought up to current standards, but returning ships that were to be mothballed were not modernized before hand (makes sense if you think about it - why work something that might never be re-activated, or might need upgrades to the upgrades).



I believe it's when she's on her way to be modernized. According to her DANFS entry, she was moved from the west coast, where she had been in mothballs, to the east coast for modernization. That is the best reason for the state she's in.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I believe it's when she's on her way to be modernized. According to her DANFS entry, she was moved from the west coast, where she had been in mothballs, to the east coast for modernization. That is the best reason for the state she's in.[/quote]

Tracy...I think you're right. Since Intrepid traveled from the west to the east coast for the modernization she would have to go through the Panama channel. This would explain why the port 40mm platforms are missing and I am sure if we had a picture of the starboard side those would be gone as well.
BTW...she also already has the modified platform on the funnel...no more single 20mm and no search lights.

thanks
Uwe

Hello again

Quick question on Hancock's Air Group in July/August 45...Corsairs and Helldivers? I know she carried Corsairs...that sunk a Japanese cruiser...but was it only Corsairs or still Hellcats as well? I am about to put planes in the hangar of my 1/700 Hancock, just not sure of the types.

thanks
Uwe

She was a 50/50 ship; half Corsairs and half Hellcats. July shows one less Helldiver (combat loss?) than August in the data I have, but otherwise as of August:

1945 August CVG-6
CAG F4U-4 x 1
VB-6 SB2C-4E x 15
VBF-6 F4U-4 x 36
VF-6 F6F-5 x 26
VF-6 F6F-5E x 4
VF-6 F6F-5N x 4
VF-6 F6F-5P x 2
VT-6 TBM-3E x 15
Total: 103

Note the -4 version of the Corsair - this means 4-bladed props instead of three.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy...just what I was looking for

cheers
Uwe

Good evening all...

Another thing that puzzles me...On the Trumpeter Hancock there are two larger holes next to the starboard aft 40mm positions. One behind the rear mount and one in front of the further forward one (that is if you add the late war modifications) The instructions say nothing about those holes and the pictures I have there is nothing to see there that might lead to the conclusion that those would be gun director positions. Did the rear 40mm guns have directors at all? The kit has two director stations H1 left that seem to be not used...
In the anatomy of a ship book on Intrepid there is a picture that shows directors at those positions and a drawing that mentions that those were moved up to flight deck level in early 45. I also have pictures of Princeton that show those positions at cat walk level even though Princeton did not have the 40mm guns when the pictures were taken. Unfortunately I have no Hancock pics of this part of the ship.

thanks
Uwe

PS: Found what I wanted...I was able to blow up and re-work a picture of hancock that confirms the directors at flight deck level...so problem solved and director positions are in place already.

How did they arrange arrestor wires when the rear elevator was down? I've seen some models where it is pulled forward, around the edge of the railings. Would this be prototypical?

I have a picture below to show the area - I have left it blank for now until known.

Thanks!
Kyle

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I have no source documents on this, so I can't really answer myself.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman