The Ship Model Forum

Thanks so much for the help Tracy - I have moved a couple posts into here for the sake of keeping a single source for others on the topic if that's alright.



Appears in March...



Here's what I was wondering/confused about. In April she had all newer model aircraft - the dash 5 model Hellcats, dash 4 Divers, and dash 3 TBMs. This assumes that all of the more recent airframes were painted in GSB instead of tri color. This jives for me, but pictures like this throw a whole wrench in the thing.



I'll hyperlink here to NavSource - towards the stern she appears to have tri colored Helldivers just like the photo above as well.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021065.jpg

In another photo of her just a few months later with CAG 88 she still has a few lingering tricolor TBMs (or so it appears) on her port side. All of the aircraft were carry over's from CVG9 save for some new F4Us and a some new TBMs I believe.



I guess what I'm getting at - do we assume colors based on model type (and date) of airframe, and if so, would this assumption always be correct?

Kyle

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I know that on the Yorktown class, any wire that might cross an elevator had some sort of clip or hold down to route the wire around the elevator pit when the wire was not in use. Sufficient wire was paid out to allow the movement around the pit.

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Mike

Kyle,

I can only speak for SHANGRI-LA. The wire across the elevator (#12 wire) was rarely connected during normal flight ops because of the issue with the elevator operation. It was used during special circumstances such as F7F and PBJ (B-25) testing. Some flight deck crew said that since the first barricade was immediately forward of #12 wire (and the elevator), if you caught #12 wire, you were going into the barricade anyway. Therefore, it was felt that it was not worth the effort to disconnect and reconnect the wire for routine operations.

Hope this helps,

Bob

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Just found a shot of CVB-43 from her 1956 Cruise book showing her doing the same thing with her after elevator.

http://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv43-56/021.htm

Look at the centerline deck stripe and the two crewmen forward of the elevator and you'll see the wire forming a triangle with the elevator opening.

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Thank you guys! Removing it makes sense to me since it is the last wire before the barrier. However pulling it forward when the elevator drops makes sense too. Hm... Should I add it and pull it out of the way, or just leave it off...

Kyle

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SB2C-4 was my mistake.

The evolution of camouflage schemes is roughly as follows:
1941 October - non-specular blue gray on top, non-specular light gray on the bottom
1943 February - Tri-color ordered into place.
1944 March - Glossy Sea Blue is ordered into effect for all fighters. Generally, this was done only by manufacturers and overhaul shops and NOT by ships out in the field. So, F6F-3s painted in tri-color stayed in Tri-color.
1944 November - Glossy Sea Blue ordered for all carrier-based aircraft. Same general rules as above apply.

First F6F-5 rolled off the assembly line in April of 1944, almost exactly when orders to change over to Glossy Sea Blue were able to be acted upon (time to mail, get paint, etc.).
The SB2C-4 appeared in mid 1944, so there was plenty of time for -4s to roll out in tri-color. The SB2C-5 is what I was thinking of, and that started rolling out in February of 1945, so they would clearly be in Glossy Sea Blue. However, Yorktown didn't have any -5s even by the end of the war, so it is completely possible her Helldivers were all tri-color, or a mix. I don't have lists for all the BuNos and when they rolled off the assembly lines and what carriers they were assigned to to make an exact determination.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks so much Tracy! Your knowledge overwhelms me. Studying as many photos that I can find in my books and online, I have yet to find (pre CVG 88) a Gloss Sea Blue Avenger or Helldiver. Of course it doesn't mean that there were no GSB, but there more I research, the less likely it seems.

Appears the Hellcats were all GSB, and the Avengers/Divers were tri color in April 45'. Might have been some rogue GSB Avengers that were new.

Kyle

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Here is a photo showing the arrestor wire on Enterprise pulled forward of the elevator pit and secured by retainers. The Chief is about to step on it.

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Mike

Excellent Mike, thanks! Looks like they pulled it to one point as opposed to wrapping it around the elevator.

Kyle

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It was easiest to just pull it forward from a tractor/tug.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Mike, as a side note, the Chief was going to step on the wire rope intentionally, or possibly instinctively. A basic safety rule aboard ship is, Never step over a wire rope or a line (Hemp) that is under tension, step on it. The reason is that if the rope or line parts (breaks) while you are stepping over it, it will whip and you will loose your legs. Whereas, if you step on it and it breaks, you will be thrown for a loop, but will remain in one piece.

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Russ

Interesting side bar. I definitely see the wisdom in such a practice. If you look just a few feet behind the Chief you can just barely see the top of the metal retainer that is holding the wire. Looks like a big "U" nail. There would be another on the other side of the elevator pit to keep the wire nice and neat and clear of trouble.

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Mike

Actually, two points, one on either side of the pit. Note the retainer a few feet behind the Chief, it is barely visible, but there would be a matching one on the opposite side. A couple of guys with tail hook pry bars could pull the wire forward. No need for tractors!

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Mike

We had a mooring line on Inchon snap while med-mooring in Naples, Italy and a deck-ape ended up with two severly broken legs, The med-vaced him off and he never came back.

Keith

Hello everybody

Has anybody tried and succeded buying a spare part from Trumpeter for an alteration of one of their kits? I snatched a 350 Tico from E-Bay for only 43EUR and would like to convert it to maybe a Shangri La...but to do that I would need a long flight deck. I am thinking of the Yorktown/Franklin deck here. How can i get in touch with them...anybody knows?

thanks a lot
Uwe

Not going to happen. I think you're better off trying to get an aftermarket deck or buying a second kit. Trumpeter has no customer service.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hello all

Got lucky again...and found a started (few parts no paint) Yorktown for 40EUR!
This is now the 3rd time within the last 4 weeks that I see 350 Essex carriers go for a little more or just 40EUR! Are people knowing something I don't know...a Dragon smart kit Essex familiy in 1/350 coming up?

cheers
Uwe

No, not from Dragon.

*Edit* for clarification, that means that they're not working on one. If anyone else is, I don't know and haven't been contacted for help.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

...wishful thinking, Tracy...! Maybe one day?

BTW...has anybody really worked with those huge Pontos sets already and has posted what he experianced while doing so? Or are there any pictures of a completed Pontos Essex class other then the ones Pontos themselves posted?

thanks
Uwe

Hello!

A question for Tracy...

When the flight deck of CV-14 Tico was lenghtened where the catapults moved forward as well or did they stay in place? Still puzzeled how/if it is possible to lenghten the Trumpi deck? Would a Yorktown deck with covered over cut outs do the trick? Was the rear lenghtened as well?


thanks
Uwe