The Ship Model Forum

I wouldn't pay any attention to Wright. He is a war gamer not a researcher. WEM 507 B & B 5 look about the same in the WEM tins. The flight deck color was called Bronze Grey, it's green. Sovereign has created a color for that. It's totally up to you, everything I say is just an opinion.
HTH

The Flyhawk kit is ok but parts are very fine and difficult to get off the sprues in one piece and the instructions are not great.
Does anyone know where I can buy the Loose Cannon model of HMS Furious in her 1918 guise, it seems to be impossible to find in UK.

Thanks JCRAY for your opinion!

What was Hermes' flight deck covered with; steel, or wood (for weathering purposes)? I suspect steel as the model doesn't have planking detail, but I want to be sure.

I beg to differ; Flyhawk kit is fantastic, and if the parts weren't "very fine" other modellers would complain of "clunky and soft detail". I had no problem removing parts with Xuron sprue nippers, or sharp hobby knife/scalpel blade. Instructions are sometimes printed small, but they are usually explanatory. Sometimes you have to check forward to the following steps for a different view of the assembly.

Was Hermes' flight deck planked? The kit's deck is smooth like it was steel. Or was it covered in something?

Steel -
I had a look at photos of them on old Postcards , which I bought on ebay over the last 15-20 years

RN carrier flight decks were normally steel. The only official paint application instructions I've seen for flight decks were written for steel decks.

_________________
James Duff
Sovereign Hobbies Ltd
http://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk

Current build:
HMS Imperial D09 1/350
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151

Hmmm...must have been slippery when wet!

The application directions for the early war pattern 631 Bronze Grey required the decks to be cleaned back and a coat of primer applied and allowed to dry. Next, another coat of primer was applied but before drying sawdust was to be scattered. Once that primer had dried, the Bronze Grey was sprayed on top of the primer with sawdust stuck to it. This gave the rough non-slip surface.

There was a selection of purpose made non-slip paints with a gritty texture made available quite early on to replace Bronze Grey with sawdust.

_________________
James Duff
Sovereign Hobbies Ltd
http://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk

Current build:
HMS Imperial D09 1/350
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151

Hi Vladi,

The green flight deck is not unknown - it's in the Rate Books from 1933 on as pattern 631 Bronze Grey, a colour comprised of black, white and yellow ochre. It makes a dark dirty sea green sort of colour, and was the only paint prescribed by the Admiralty for carrier flight decks until the availability of non-slip paints in the full range of colours which was, from memory, mid-late 1941 I think (dick may correct me on the exact date):



On the subject of camouflage, Raven in his update is probably closer to the truth. It has been known for a while now that pattern 507A and pattern 507B were the same shade of Home Fleet Grey. 507B was introduced following a 1929 survey of ship captains to determine whether a higher quality enamel paint would reduce the workload in repainting their ships. The consensus was "yes" and 507B was introduced as Home Fleet Grey with enamel varnish tinted to Home Fleet shade added to make it harder wearing. Early on in the war the Admiralty ordered use of enamel to be suspended for war economies and reintroduced 507A as exactly the same formula but without the tinted enamel varnish in the recipe.

So, there were no camouflage patterns made up from 507A and 507B.

Large ships did tend to have one-off designs which little seems to have been formally recorded, but the Admiralty did have views on combinations of shades for 3 colour Light Admiralty Type camouflage schemes up to 1942, prior to the withdrawal of MS1,2,3,4,4A,B5 and B6 and their replacement with G5,G10,B15,G20,B30,G30,B45 (later G45) etc from 1943. If we ignore the designs (printed on colour plates showing suggested disruptive patterns) and consider the combinations of colours as ones definitely used together elsewhere in the navy we could also consider:

1) 507A, 507C, MS4A


2) 507C, MS2, MS4A


3) MS2, MS4, MS4A


4) B5, MS4, MS1


5) 507C, MS4A, B5


Of those (published in Confidential Admiralty Fleet Order (C.A.F.O.) 679/42 "SEA-GOING CAMOUFLAGE DESIGNS FOR DESTROYERS AND SMALL SHIPS" in 1942)) the photograph itself suggests that the darkest shade on HMS Hermes was probably either 507A Home Fleet Grey, MS2 or maybe B5 perhaps. B6 may be a candidate for one of the lighter shades, but contemporary practise for 3 colour schemes on smaller ships at least tended to favour MS4. The above is by no means intended to exclude any other suggestions - but 507A and B were the same colour - Dark Grey, Home Fleet shade.

_________________
James Duff
Sovereign Hobbies Ltd
http://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk

Current build:
HMS Imperial D09 1/350
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151

Hi Quincy,

Shouldn't HMS Argus be also in this thread? She dates from the end of World War I through the 1920s, although she was mainly used as an aircraft transport for much of WW2.

One option in 1/700 is the Shapeways 3D printed model from COB Constructs and Miniatures:

1/700 HMS Argus listing from COB Constructs and Miniatures page

The model is probably complete upon printing, but one can at least add the RN-themed PE and air group from various after-market kits.

_________________
"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.

"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill

SovereignHobbies, can you explain your labeling in those photos please? On the hull, you label the bow and stern as the same colour when to me it looks like the light stripe diagonally under the bridge is the same colour as the stern and the bow is darker.

The schemes I've seen use AP507A as the obviously darkest colour on the hull, B5 as the mid colour on the bow and the pattern on the bridge, and AP507C as the base/lightest colour everywhere else (middle hull and stern included). Do you have something that actively disproves this? Are you just speculating with your labeling, as those colour combinations all could come out looking quite different!

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Vlad

Two shots of Eagle, taken from USS Wasp, during one of the ferry missions to Malta. Photos from NARA II, courtesy of Roger Torgeson.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Very nice photos! Thanks for posting.

Aop

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On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!

The second trip, Operation Bellows. Lovely photos, but for those of us interested in the delivery Spitfires, frustrating because the codes on the side of the aircraft can't be seen. I know, asking for too much.... good to have the photos anyway.

Has anyone found clear port side photographs of Glorious (as a carrier post-1937 ideally)? There are none in the IWM catalogue (on line) and I have copies of all those at the FAAM - including those taken off Norway in 1940, but details of the mid-section at flight-deck level and alterations to the island remain unclear to me.

IG

Photos at http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancest ... us%201.jpg and http://www.glarac.co.uk/files/images/HM ... %20x%20390)_0.jpg were taken after the 1934-35 refit - I'm not sure whether they were taken after 1937. They're not that clear, and don't show much of the island, I'm afraid.

Thanks Tim.

I have this one, taken prior to the flight deck extension, which I bought from an eBay auction, and I've enlarged and cropped it. It's the best I have, though it's not super clear. Could some one tell me what the
four structures are (circled) below the flight deck and what the black bars are on the island? Also where were her quad 0.5 inch located?

The bars on the island can also be seen on the photo at http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_di ... ous_07.jpg. A caption in Norman Friedman British Carrier Aviation (Conway Maritime Press, 1988) says "... probably connected to the moveable panels used to signal aircraft not fitted with radio." Another photo shows the dark panels in the shape of an upright letter "T". (FURIOUS had similar, but not identical, panels just aft of her control positions.)
Not sure about the four circled strictures are, but I wonder if they are part of a mechanism to raise windbreaks to port of the catapult or the lift location (the starboard side being sheltered by the island)? They were also fitted to COURAGEOUS.
According to R A Burt British Battleships 1919-1945 (Arms & Armour Press, Second Edition 2012), (during the 1934-35 refit) "Multiple 0.5 inch AA (4 barrels) added in sponson port side flying deck right aft." However, I can't identify this location on any photograph - and an IWM photograph (Reference FL22991) shows an object with at least three horizontal projections (which look very like the staggered barrels of a quadruple 0.5" mounting) just abaft the stbd for'd HA.DCT.