The Ship Model Forum

Hi David, 
yes I do. In fact I even attempted to use it for my CAD work but it is so badly distorted it actually more of a hindrance than any help...
Obviously it could be still used as a visual reference. I might had misinterpreted it but I took it as a proof that the quarter sponson was gone by that time.
Funny thing, since you mentioned it I took another look and just noticed, I left off SPN radar ( white tube on a platform attached to smokestack ) on my 1961 ANTIETAM. How on earth that happened...? so thanks for mentioning it...

Darius  

WOW!!!!

Which members of the class can be built out of the Dragon 1/700 USS Princeton CVS-37 kit?

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Planned projects
1/700 USS Macon CA-132
1/350 USS Wasp CV-18
1/350 USS Alabama BB-60

It has been awhile since I did the research for my plans to do "Korean War" non SCB-27 ships, but that kit should be able to be used for CV-32 Leyte and newer for a period starting in 1948ish +/- a few years depending on the ship. The kit gives you the new mast when they were designated CVS in the mid 50s but you also get the old WWII masts for the late 40s and into the 50s. The kit also has the newer radar and enclosed bridge. It has 40mm guns vice the 3" guns but I think that there are after market sets for that as you move into the 50s and 60s ships.

The Princeton kit gives you S-2Fs and the Bon Homme Richard kit gives you the Sky Raiders, Panthers and Banshees for a Korean War Air Wing. DML used to sell them separately but have long since discontinued those after market sets. There is a Fujimi Vietnam set for Kitty Hawk/ Conny with Sky Raiders that you can find on ebay as well. I have not seen a 3D Printed 1/700 plane on Shapways that did not look like bathtub toys so the Air Wing becomes the constraint in my opinion for post WWII up to Vietnam carriers.

Makes me wonder if Model Monkey can print other designs not of his own on his new 3D Printer to yield a higher fidelity 1/700 jet?

Hello Steve???

Hope that helps.

Good luck,

Mark

Yes, it does thanks. That would mean every post-war built ship could be built during the 50s from that kit but none of the wartime built ones correct? Sorry, I'm still learning everything about the small differences between ships.

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Planned projects
1/700 USS Macon CA-132
1/350 USS Wasp CV-18
1/350 USS Alabama BB-60

The Trumpeter and DML Essex Class Long Hulls ( Hancock & Ticonderoga) are good for any WWII Long hull carriers(there were some differences between all of them) and the Essex, Yorktown, and Franklin kits for short hulls. (Be aware of one vs. 2 catapults, 4 or 3 40MM on the island, other subtle differences as they got modified throughout the war) Most of the ships that saw action in WWII were mothballed and laid up after WWII until Korea so that is why the Princeton Kit and its derivatives are better for non SCB-27A/B ships into the 50's. The Bon Homme Richard is the only short hull that I can recall to get into the Korean War in its short hull post WWII configuration. All of the other short hull ships started getting the SCB-27A/C conversions before they went to Korea.

So for post WWII I would stay with the Princeton or the Bon Homme Richard kits. That way you have the correct radars and the enclosed bridge.

Thank you that's a big help. To make sure I'm following correctly for Lake Champlain in the late 50s the Princeton kit is best and for Shangri La in 1960 after her shift to the Atlantic fleet the Antietam kit would be best ?

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Planned projects
1/700 USS Macon CA-132
1/350 USS Wasp CV-18
1/350 USS Alabama BB-60

Lake Champlain got the SCB-27A conversion 1950-1952 so the only kit of that is the Iron Shipwrights SCB-27 Essex.

http://ironshipwrights.com/pages/Essex700.html

Shangri La was decommissioned in 1947. She was re-commissioned in 1955 as a SCB-125 ship with the angled deck. There are no kits available that do a 125 ship so that is a scratch build. The Iron Shipwrights kit or perhaps the Antietam Kit might be good places to start. Model Monkey does the Island and I was hoping to get Nautilus to do a deck without any luck. With those two pieces plus a starting point kit, a scratch build/kit bash would be a pretty straight forward conversion. Kind of a varsity play!

Good luck,

Mark

Mathews Miniatures offers an SCB 125 Essex in 1/700. I am currently in a build of the kit. It is a craftsman kit in resin, needs a little help here and there. I substituted the Model Monkey island for that which comes with the kit, dramatic improvement. Although a bit under scale it with fit well with the Italeri super carriers. If you are not afraid to dig in, do some hard core model work, this kit will provide a decent representation of an SCB 125 Essex. There are no other options beyond a complete scratch build.

I'm another guy working with the 1/350 Intrepid kit from Gallery. I'm building the USS Hancock as she would have been on Yankee Station circa 1972. I appreciate the information on the flight deck colors. That will help immensely. I'm curious as to the extent of the aluminum decking on the Hanna and whether it was different than the Intrepid. The story I found is:
In the summer of 1969 she was back in Alameda preparing for yet another deployment to southeast Asia. In July, while in pre-deployment night landing exercises, an F-8 came in too low and crashed into the round-down splitting the aircraft into two pieces which hurtled down the deck and erupted in a massive fuel fed fire. While no lives were lost, damage to the flight deck was extensive, resulting in a frenetic 24 × 7 repair effort to be ready by the deployment date.

I have Ray's CDs coming and hope I can confirm the extent of the aluminum decking from those.

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Dano
Montana

Speaking of ModelMonkey's islands (doesn't THAT sound like the title for an adventure novel!), I'm wondering if there has been any advancement of later replacement islands for the Intrepid, Ticonderoga, Hancock. I'm building the 1/350 Gallery kit as the Hanna on one of her last tours to the South China Sea and Yankee Station in '72.

I'd like to add that Ray Bean has been incredibly helpful in guiding me to some of the other era-correct detail parts out there. I followed up with SSN Modellbau to obtain the later decal sets for the ships, as well as the correct AN/SPS-43 radar array. They will add a lot to setting the period for the build.

Dano

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Dano
Montana

Hi Dano,

I regret that there are no plans for further Essex or Forrestal islands. Each island requires a considerable research and design effort to complete. Unfortunately, sales for them have been very poor and do not support more work. The existing designs were all done at a significant loss. I wish it were not so.

But many thanks to Mr. Smallshaw and other valued customers who have purchased the existing islands. Their support helps put food on the table for a family of 6.

Best wishes on your Hancock project!

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Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby

Dano,

I am also planning a conversion of the Gallery kit to Hannah between 1965 and 1967, when my father served onboard. Let's share ideas.

Bill

Bill -
Start by getting Ray Bean's CDs of the angled deck Essexs. For information on availability and cost it's easiest to email him at stillmo@shaw.ca.

Also if you're on FB, check Ray's site called "Eyes of the Fleet" and check out his photos. https://www.facebook.com/Eyes-of-the-Fl ... 084496345/

Dano

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Dano
Montana

By the way, I ordered and received four 1/720 Forrestal class islands for my Italeri kits. Steve did a magnificent job with them. They are fantastic! Kudos!

Bill

Does anyone have a photo of the landing gear arrestor cable. O trolls on the side of the flight deck?

Greg - Watch this YouTube video and see if it doesn't help. You may want to freeze playback and do some screen grabs. There's good images of the flight deck and other details. You'll notice drop tanks stored *everywhere*.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh401YyDvEs
"VA-164 USS Hancock 1972"

Dano

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Dano
Montana

I think the poor sales are largely the result of a poor choice of specific subject based on not understanding the history of these three ships. Gallery focused this model on the Intrepid, but it can easily be converted to the Hancock or the Ticonderoga, as all three had the same distinctive aft starboard elevator. I can only assume they chose the Intrepid because they thought people who had been to the Intrepid museum would want to buy it.

But Gallery/MDC ignored the tens of thousands of sailors and Navy aviators who were deployed on these ships that were stationed on Yankee Station during the Vietnam era. The Intrepid only had three tours in the South China Sea in '66, '67 and '68, while the Hanna had NINE between '64 and '75 and the Ticonderoga had SEVEN between '64 and '72. Perhaps Gallery felt that talking about Vietnam was something they should avoid, but these sailors and their families are looking for something to offer closure to those times, and the Hanna and Tico kits might just offer something toward that. That's why *I* want to build the Hancock!

The one other limitation is the need for good 1:350 A-4E and A-4F Skyhawks with their distinctive humpback profiles. They're available in 3D printing, but good detailed models with drop tank variations and armament stores are still lacking, as are decals for those same aircraft squadrons (and the Crusader squadrons) from the Hanna and the Tico. It's a remarkable kit with some pretty sophisticated photo etch available as aftermarket parts. But the marketing "missed the boat".

My 2¢ worth.

Dano

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Dano
Montana

Well,

Poor sales could be attributed to the fact that the cheapest Intrepid Kit I could find on Ebay is $180 with shipping. I own two of them. One will be Intrepid 1957 and is getting a lot of extra love for adding a few sponsons mods and a 1957 air wing. Add $300 to that one for a total of around $480. One will get kit bashed into an Oriskany with the aid of a Model Monkey Oriskany Island ($80) plus a 1972 Air Wing with L'Arsenal F-8, Trumpeter A-7E, and L'Arsenal E-1/C-1 aircraft for another $200. So Oriskany ends up being a $180 = $80 = $200 = $460 kit. At those kind of prices you leave the casual ship builder out of the market.

This forum leaves the impression that we are average builders but I would venture to guess that we represent the far extreme part of the market that has the resources to build eccentrically detailed model ships. Not much profit margin when I would guess no more than a handful of us will do a particular build of an Essex SCB125 ship and to Steve's point, there are 4 sub-classes of SCB-125 Essex ships and they are all a little different inside that sub-class.


Steve's Island are spectacular though. I wish that there was a market for someone to do the 4 different deck layouts to aid in the kit bash. I have asked Nautilus if they can scale up their 1/540 Essex/Lexington angled decks but I can't quite close that deal.

I am grateful for the rest of my life to Steve for his SCB Essex islands, without which I probably wouldn't have felt encouraged enough to finish my Essex-class build project. (The prospect of scratchbuilding the seven islands I needed would have had me putting it off for years to come. Cutting that much effort out of the project made it appealing enough to finish.) His Forrestal islands have me fired up for an early CVA-59 and maybe 60 (we'll see how well the Italeri kit treats me). But I understand the how they would just not sell well. Aside from ship geeks like those of us who frequent this forum, who else will buy such niche products? Honestly, even among the islands that are offered, I wonder more often than not: "Why that ship at that time? Did it just happen to be the best drawing available? Or was it someone's specific request? Either way, not what I'm looking for." (Or, sometimes for my particular project: "Don't know why this one was produced, but maybe I can work with this...") (No insult meant to Steve, of course. Just my musings.)
A modeler who truly wants to build such a subject for themselves, or as a tribute to a friend or relative - I get it. But that's a small customer base. Non-modeler crew members or relatives who want a model of the specific subject.... they usually don't grasp what's involved with getting them what they specifically want, and are rarely willing to pay what it takes to get it - and certainly not enough of them to make it commercially viable. Thinking of the times I've been in a hobby shop, when some veteran walks in asking for a model of his ship at the specific time period... no,there's no kit available... "I can't believe no one makes it! We did..." then lays into how significant his ship was, how long it served, etc. Maybe he (or the relative who is asking on his behalf) asks if someone would be willing to make the modifications to existing kits to represent it... but balk at the price.
I'm grateful for what we've gotten; I wish for more, but understand why it is not so.
If only those gosh darned Cold War Essexes (and Midways, for that matter) were not so ship-specific...
(No excuse, however, for why the aircraft sets from the Gallery Intrepid have yet to be released independently. Now THAT is money left sitting on the table. Skyhawks and Skyraiders. Seriously, man! Tamiya Enterprise backdates, anyone?)

- Sean F.