The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:21 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 582 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 476
Location: Brooklyn NY USA
Charybdis wrote:
I came across this cracking photo of a Yorktown class carrier online. It claimed to be of Yorktown, but after reading the various info posted in this thread, I think it may be Enterprise due to the 20mm tubs forward of the main deck crane (I thought Yorktown had 8 x .50 cals on the stb side). However, the 20mm gallery on the stb island looks to be like Yorktown.

Also, is it Measure 12 camo? That would surely be definitive.

Does anybody recognize this photo? If so, do you know the time frame it was taken?

Also... it seems that the .50 cals were fitted with splinter shields like the 20mm (??)

Image

This photo is Enterprise, returning to Pearl Harbor after Eastern Solomons, and she wears Measure 21 Navy Blue. Note the damaged 5 inch battery, which was hit by a bomb in the battle. Also, the aft corner tubs are upgraded and mount 20mm guns. The original 50 calibers were in the catwalk, not mounted in tubs notched into the aft ramp. (Hornet had same aft corner 20mm tubs). At her repair period prior to return to South Pacific, an additional 20mm was added inboard of these two corner ones.

_________________
Mike
Image


Last edited by Michael Vorrasi on Fri May 06, 2016 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:28 pm
Posts: 32
Fascinating. Thanks for the info.

A couple of interesting points; I notice no number 6 or a name plate across the stern. Censored perhaps or was CV-6 different from her two sisters in this respect? Do you know what the small ring is just forward the aft 20mm on the stb side? There also seems to be a small overhang around the base of the crane on the main deck. I'm sure this wasn't as built.

Thanks again.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 476
Location: Brooklyn NY USA
Charybdis wrote:
Fascinating. Thanks for the info.

A couple of interesting points; I notice no number 6 or a name plate across the stern. Censored perhaps or was CV-6 different from her two sisters in this respect? Do you know what the small ring is just forward the aft 20mm on the stb side? There also seems to be a small overhang around the base of the crane on the main deck. I'm sure this wasn't as built.

Thanks again.

Name plates were removed for security reasons. CV-6 is odd in that she did not have a 6 on her hull fore and aft as her sisters both displayed hull numbers. My guess is PHNY painted her. Norfolk painted both CV-5 and CV-8. The ring is a DF Loop antenna. The little platform rings at base of the boat crane were added to CV-5 and 6 prewar. CV- 8 seems never to have had them added.

_________________
Mike
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 10:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:55 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Hoover, Alabama
Charybdis wrote:
A couple of interesting points; I notice no number 6 or a name plate across the stern.


The letters of the name of each of the Yorktown class were welded to the hull (as are the names of the battleships). They were painted over when hostilities broke out. The Yorktown's name (letters) are still visible in the Ballard photographs of CV5 taken during his expedition and the stern section of the Enterprise's name were salvaged and put on display in New Jersey. The "E" of the Enterprise is visible in the drydock photo showing the stern damage port side from the Solomon's campaign.

And they are visible in the photo of CV6 that you posted as well.


Kelley


Attachments:
CV6 NameCutOut.jpg
CV6 NameCutOut.jpg [ 44.91 KiB | Viewed 2443 times ]
Bama 100_1418.jpg
Bama 100_1418.jpg [ 20.4 KiB | Viewed 2443 times ]
CV6 Name2.jpg
CV6 Name2.jpg [ 51.68 KiB | Viewed 2436 times ]

_________________
Image
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 11:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 476
Location: Brooklyn NY USA
TOMLABEL wrote:
Charybdis wrote:
A couple of interesting points; I notice no number 6 or a name plate across the stern.


The letters of the name of each of the Yorktown class were welded to the hull (as are the names of the battleships). They were painted over when hostilities broke out. The Yorktown's name (letters) are still visible in the Ballard photographs of CV5 taken during his expedition and the stern section of the Enterprise's name were salvaged and put on display in New Jersey. The "E" of the Enterprise is visible in the drydock photo showing the stern damage port side from the Solomon's campaign.

And they are visible in the photo of CV6 that you posted as well.


Kelley


Kelley, quite correct. The embossed metal letters on the stern were not removed, but painted over in the base hull color. In fact, the photo we are discussing shows the embossed letters clearly under the degaussing cables in a better lower contrast copy of that shot I have saved on the HD. The OP mentioned name plates. i was thinking of the name plate Hornet displayed on her forecastle while finishing up at Newport News. See here, look at it in at least medium size:
http://www.history.navy.mil/our-collect ... 26371.html

_________________
Mike
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 2:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:55 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Hoover, Alabama
Michael Vorrasi wrote:
The OP mentioned name plates. i was thinking of the name plate Hornet displayed on her forecastle while finishing up at Newport News. See here, look at it in at least medium size:http://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/19-N-26000/19-N-26371.html


Wow!!! Nice pic! I see the nameplate that you referenced. I might have mistaken the OP original question (I've never seen that pic) but yes, all visible identifying information on ships were removed/painted over as Mike said for security/operational reasons to elude and confuse both friend and foe.

Mike, nice information on another example of the differences between PHNY and Norfolk's practices!!! I always wondered why CV6's numbers weren't visible and CV5/8's were. Given the different shapes/structures of the AA tubs/etc and now identification numbers, it seems like there was a mild disconnect or preference (or orders) between the two.

Thanks Mike!!!! :thumbs_up_1:

Kelley

_________________
Image


Last edited by TOMLABEL on Sat May 07, 2016 2:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 10:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:34 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Smithfield, Virginia
TOMLABEL wrote:
Michael Vorrasi wrote:
The OP mentioned name plates. i was thinking of the name plate Hornet displayed on her forecastle while finishing up at Newport News. See here, look at it in at least medium size:http://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/19-N-26000/19-N-26371.html


Wow!!! Nice pic! I see the nameplate that you referenced. I might have mistaken the OP original question (I've never seen that pic) but yes, all visible identifying information on ships were removed/painted over as Mike said for security/operational reasons to elude and confuse both friend and foe.

Mike, nice information on another example of the differences between PHNY and Norfolk's practices!!! I always wondered why CV6's numbers weren't visible and CV5/8's were. Given the different shapes/structures of the AA tubs/etc and now identification numbers, it seems like there was a mild disconnect or preference (or orders) between the two.

Thanks Mike!!!! :thumbs_up_1:

Kelley


I have never figured out how painting over the ship's name, while displaying a number - the actual hull number no less - in a contrasting color and larger in height than the ship's name was, how that provided any OPSEC. Really?
I remember during the Cold War, the Soviets used false pendant numbers on the side of the hull - that made some sense to do that. I even saw an instance or two where they had painted different pendant numbers on different sides of the same ship. Of course, if an aircraft "rigged" the ship, it would make at least one pass down each side of it so the jig was up pretty quickly.

_________________
Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 11:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:55 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Hoover, Alabama
Re-posting, just in case it was missed last week. :wave_1:
Kelley

TOMLABEL wrote:
Hey guys!

Does anyone know (or have a good idea) what the canvas looking structure/container is mounted to the side of #2 1.1mm gun tub? At first I thought that it may be for expended shells, but the tub shields have cutouts in them where they could be kicked out of the tub when necessary. I'm at a loss on this one.

Also, curious if the Yorktown class carriers had green tinted glass in the skyward pointing windows of the Pri-Fly and fighting top like the modernized Essex's had. It doesn't look like it in photos, but its not absolutely conclusive. Does anyone know about this or have a good guess?

Thanks.

Kelley


Attachments:
CV5 2TUB.jpg
CV5 2TUB.jpg [ 99.44 KiB | Viewed 2274 times ]

_________________
Image
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 8:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:55 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Hoover, Alabama
I received my Infini-models Yorktown set for the Merit kit as well as the flight deck set today and have to say that I am beyond impressed to the extreme!!! :big_grin:

Actually, I'm pretty overwhelmed by how many areas are covered in such great detail that aren't even shown in the photos posted by Infini-models in the Manufacturer's section of the forum. I can really see that a lot of time went into researching this set and I hope my modeling skills are on par to even do this set justice!!! :shock:

I'd like to call out Tracy White (as he is referenced in the EXCELLENT color instruction guide) for providing what must have been tons of research materials and thank him for this and all the time he must have spent with Infini-models to make sure all was done to a very high standard I thought not possible or feasible!!! :worship_1: :worship_1: :worship_1:

I've waited a very long time for a great 1/350 scale kit of the Yorktown class to finally be done and Tracy and Infini-models have just added the very sweet icing on the cake!!! :thumbs_up_1:

A BIG THANKS!!!

Kelley

_________________
Image


Last edited by TOMLABEL on Fri May 13, 2016 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 8:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:39 am
Posts: 2025
Location: Harlan, Kentucky, U.S.A.
Kelley, I'm glad to hear what you have to say. I just ordered mine today. No doubt there will be a follow on Enterprise set so there goes another $300.00 or so.

Bob M.

_________________
Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:15 pm
Posts: 5
jabarry wrote:
I always wondered if she got a new coat of deck stain, and/or maybe just markings during the repairs as the markings on the rear of the flight deck look different between the two photos below. The first is at Coral Sea and the second at Midway. It could be the color, angle, lighting... etc that makes the narrower center dashes seem absent in the Coral Sea photo. They were in such a rush during the emergency repairs I don't think they would have bothered. But if there is plenty of manpower around - who knows.


My guess is that the paint has been worn down by numerous landings. At the risk of sounding snarky, but that's where the pilots hoped to make contact :)


Last edited by CyberGolem on Tue May 17, 2016 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:15 pm
Posts: 5
Michael Vorrasi wrote:
DavidK wrote:
If the Tamiya instructions call for Navy Blue, then they're incorrect. Yorktown was so busy in 1942 that she never had time to repaint from her original Measure 12 into the updated Ms 12 with 5-N Navy Blue or the blotchy Measure 12 Modified (like Hornet). So, you actually need 5-S Sea Blue and 5-O Ocean Gray with a touch of 5-H Haze Gray.

Could someone help with this quote from the Measure 12 description as it pertains to the Yorktown flight deck:
"Wood decks except on submarines and carriers shall be darkened to the color Deck Blue. Deck Blue paint shall be used in lieu of stain for this purpose."
Does this mean Yorktown's flight deck was not Deck Blue?

Dave


Key words "EXCEPT ON SUBMARINES AND CARRIERS" all decks were PAINTED. Instructions for staining carrier decks were in separate documents, and that passage has caused confusion for many years. All decks were painted with deck blue as opposed to stained. Only carrier decks used blue stain. From fall of 1941 through 1942, carrier decks, including Yorktown's, used Norfolk 250N blue stain. Reason for stain is penetration. Carrier decks took a beating and stain penetrated into the wood, so the color ran deep enough that scuffs and scrapes would not expose raw wood easily, as a painted deck might. Also, their flight deck wood was rougher than the typical holy-stoned teak on a battleship or cruiser. Those dense wood decks would take paint much better, whereas stain might just fail to penetrate and just rub off such a hard dense wood.


Great point and in addition; paint gets really slippery when wet—stain maintains the texture of the wood and is also far less prone to other typical weathering as well due to the aforementioned penetration feature.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:15 pm
Posts: 5
Michael Vorrasi wrote:
Tracy White wrote:
Well, for one, if the Manufacturers section prunes, I'd say pop the stuff in here directly so that future readers don't wonder what the post was all about.

As far as I know, the only real thing we got grossly wrong with the CV-5 island was the angled cut for the aft crane. What are you trying to fix aside from the width issue?



Tracy, I think Steve is working on 1/200 CV-5 and 6 islands to convert the Trumpy 1/200 Hornet, not for the Merit kit, which I agree, is basically fine save a little filing for the crane notch on the aft corner for the CV-5 kit, and maybe a piece of Evergreen strip here and there to tweak it (Basic Modelling Skills, Kelley!) The Merit CV-6 island notch was corrected. If Steve is doing 1/487 islands for Revell and 1/719 for Tamiya that is good too.


Just curious; why wouldn't the island conversion work for the Merit 1:200 kit?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:22 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3056
Location: USA
CyberGolem wrote:
Just curious; why wouldn't the island conversion work for the Merit 1:200 kit?

A 1/200 Enterprise CV-6 island is available for the Merit 1/200 Hornet CV-8. :big_grin:

Link: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/Model_Monkey

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:15 pm
Posts: 5
ModelMonkey wrote:
CyberGolem wrote:
Just curious; why wouldn't the island conversion work for the Merit 1:200 kit?

A 1/200 Enterprise CV-6 island is available for the Merit 1/200 Hornet CV-8. :big_grin:

Link: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/Model_Monkey



Thanks Steve. I got all excited and misread that this is for an Enterprise conversion, wrote a response that I immediately deleted —after a closer looks at your offerings—oops. BTW, mighty fine stuff you're offering :)

Anyway, I'm 'wanting' to convert the Merit 1:200 Hornet to her namesake. From what I'm gathering, this might not be a reasonable pursuit ... then again, what hobby is?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 6437
Location: In the hills of North Jersey
Photo of Yorktown which I've never seen before. Supposedly taken during the Battle of Midway.
Attachment:
File comment: Yorktown, caption say taken 6/4/42, at Midway. 80G32385
Yorktown060442_80G32385.jpg
Yorktown060442_80G32385.jpg [ 327.9 KiB | Viewed 1932 times ]

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 476
Location: Brooklyn NY USA
MartinJQuinn wrote:
Photo of Yorktown which I've never seen before. Supposedly taken during the Battle of Midway.
Attachment:
Yorktown060442_80G32385.jpg


Something is telling me I have seen this photo before, but where is not popping into my head at the moment. Too bad the photo is a little fuzzy. A sharp copy of that shot would be super. Oh, the vagaries of 1942 photography... One of my favorite day dreams is to be able to zap back in a time machine with my modern professional DSLR, a handful of 64 GB memory cards and a set of killer long lenses and really go nuts!

PS, anybody have their copy of Cressman's That Gallant Ship handy? I think that photo is in the book.

_________________
Mike
Image


Last edited by Michael Vorrasi on Thu May 26, 2016 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:46 am
Posts: 2123
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Looks as if she may be spotting a strike. Looks to be F4Fs parked forward and TBDs aft. First strike of the day?

_________________
We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 476
Location: Brooklyn NY USA
Devin wrote:
Looks as if she may be spotting a strike. Looks to be F4Fs parked forward and TBDs aft. First strike of the day?


Quite possibly. The TBD's aft are a sure indicator. The F4F's forward may be a recently recovered CAP that was being recycled prior to the TBD's being brought up from below, or else moved forward out of the way to get the bombers spotted. Can you make out what is just aft of the island? SBD's maybe?

_________________
Mike
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 6437
Location: In the hills of North Jersey
Here's another of her in her pre-war glory:
Attachment:
File comment: 80G466153
Yorktown_80G466153.jpg
Yorktown_80G466153.jpg [ 2.78 MiB | Viewed 1924 times ]

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 582 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: nosferatu and 5 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group