The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:40 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 183 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:31 pm
Posts: 18
Hi all,
I'm looking for a 1/700 model of this class (maybe full hull).
Could someone suggest me any good kit?

best regards
Corrado


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2834
Location: UK
I found this on LIFE, HMS Formidable being repaired in US yard:


http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f? ... 98298fc439

Also pics of HMS Dido under repair.

I searched for British warship.

_________________
In 1757 Admiral John Byng was shot "pour encourager les autres". Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:43 am
Posts: 377
Location: Cork, Ireland
that is a cool picture :thumbs_up_1:

_________________
What Admiral Nelson really said when he put the telescope to his blind eye,,,,
"I see no ships,, whats that Hardy? oh er, right, ah, thats better, F@@k Me, look at all those ships"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:30 am 
That is one of the coolest shots I have ever seen of an AA gun from that class of carrier. NICE


Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:02 am
Posts: 315
Location: Waiting for HMS Glatton in resin. Not holding my breath!!
And how about that for a weathered paint job?

Kind regards,

David Griffith

_________________
"For scientific leadership, give me Scott. For swift and efficient travel give me Amundsen. But when you are in a hopeless situation, when you are seeing no way out, get down on your knees and pray for Shackleton."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:03 am
Posts: 1846
Location: 3rd rock from the Sun
Apart from an amazing photograph, it also shows that camo isn't in straight lines, for as long as I remember I've always said there's nothing wrong with painting nice and crisp with fantastically joint up areas - however - have you actually been on a ship of war ? Believe me, they are not all clean straight lines, and in this photo this stands out. :smallsmile:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 36
CHECK OUT .. ANATOMY OF A SHIP..Victorious..
Amazing reference material.. even tho I am attempting to model the ILlustrious in 1940 in 1/700 from that ancient Aoshima kit, you know the one I mean, looks like it was carved out of soap.

the book has been a godsend, and does in fact list every upgrade and change that happened to the ship. additionally I have both the Warship profiles on the same ship, so I think I have a good bite on making a accurate model out of carved soap stock.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 36
I wished to thank the fellow who posted the starboard side of the Island of the Formidable photo.
THANKS! I have been building a 1/700 Illustrious out of that Aoshima kit, the one that is carved out of soap..
Well that photo was just what I needed to get the Island correct. I only had distant photos and was confused as to how to hang the rafts and what not..

So Kudos to you Sir.. thanks so very very much!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:21 am
Posts: 85
http://www.ndassoc.net/docs/nd-assoc-fighter-direction.pdf

Nice account of the development of fighter direction on the Navy's fleet carriers

_________________
Current build: HMS Electra as escort for Force Z
Triple deck IJN Red Castle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 3154
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Sorry to necropost another old thread...

But I just had a straightforward question that didn't seem to be answered in previous posts or other threads:

Which 1/700 Aoshima kit would better model HMS Indomitable or HMS Formidable in early 1942 in their time with the Eastern fleet?

Aoshima's Illustrious kit or Aoshima's Victorious kit? I trust that the rest of you are more well versed in the minor differences between these sisters. I just wanted to pick the kit that was closer to Admiral Somerville's 2 carriers of Force A facing Nagumo's carrier force off Ceylon in April 1942.

_________________
"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.

"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:31 am
Posts: 70
CCGSailor wrote:
Sorry to necropost another old thread...

But I just had a straightforward question that didn't seem to be answered in previous posts or other threads:

Which 1/700 Aoshima kit would better model HMS Indomitable or HMS Formidable in early 1942 in their time with the Eastern fleet?

Aoshima's Illustrious kit or Aoshima's Victorious kit? I trust that the rest of you are more well versed in the minor differences between these sisters. I just wanted to pick the kit that was closer to Admiral Somerville's 2 carriers of Force A facing Nagumo's carrier force off Ceylon in April 1942.



The Illustrious and Victorious kits don't differ much, both are pretty inaccurate, first you have to get rid of the whole island, the shape of the 4.5 in turrets also incorrect...
The hulls aren't that hopeless, but lots of work needed.

The main thing: both kits can be used for Formidable, but Indomitable's extra half hangar meant that she had a different hull form and higher freeboard than Illustrious, Formidable and Victorious.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 1:46 pm
Posts: 94
Location: Off to sea in an MTB
Does anyone know when the Aoshima carriers will be available again?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:00 pm
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond, VA, USA
What about HP Model's Illustrious or Victorious?

_________________
... Brian


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:31 am
Posts: 70
I only have one photo of an assembled model, the photo quality is moderately good, the modeling work seems to be nice,
the whole thing looks promising and I would really like to see such a kit


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:19 am
Posts: 8
I'm about to paint my Heller 1/400 Illustrious as she was at Taranto 1940. The choices seem to be:

Option 1 (Alexandria-type scheme)
Ian Gazeley's post from 2007-06-26 :
Illustrious: 1-5/7/40 (Bermuda); 13/9/40, 20-26/9/40 (Alexandria); 6-7/12/40, 9/12/40, 14/12/40 (Alexandria); 14-15/2/41, 17-21/2/41 (Alexandria)

Illustrious arrived in the Mediterranean in overall (medium) grey. Although there are very few photographs, I'd speculate that two distinct 'Alexandria' type schemes may have been were applied after she arrived in the Med. The first shows less contrast than the scheme worn at the time of her extensive damage on 10/1/41. This would be consistent with the dates recorded above, with the first scheme applied in September 1940 and the second in December 1940. It appears from the photographs I've seen that the repainting in February 1941 followed the same pattern as the December 1940 scheme.


Ian follows up on this post on 2007-07-02 with:

What do you make of this image of Illustrious? It is supposedly, 'returning from Taranto' at Alexandria. If so, it is after her repaint at Alexandria in September 1940. The scheme shows much less contrast than the one worn in January 1941, following the December repaint, but generally follows the same pattern.

IMG]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/iangazeley/1065_27_14.jpg[/IMG]


Unfortunately, the URL no longer resolves to a photo

Option 2 (overall medium gray)
Lieutenant D.J. Lyon, author of Profile Warship No. 10 HMS Illustrious Aircraft Carrier 1939-1956; ca. 1971, pg 228-29

HMS Illustrious as she appeared when she launched the Fleet Air Arm attack on Taranto 11 November 1940. She is shown wearing an overall medium gray, ... and a two page color spread in overall medium gray.

Uncertainty between these options
Further research has this posting by Laurence Batchelor 2007-07-02:

Do my eyes deceive me or am I seeing faint patterned camouflage?

My impression has always been Illustrious was dark grey overall for the convoy operation and subsequent Taranto raid.

However I have seen this pattern shown before and evidence that it was on her in 1940 and shown on her whilst returning to Alex from the Taranto raid.
This has been a lingering dilemma which I never fully researched to resolve.


More uncertainty
Alan Raven's book Warship Perspectives Camouflage Volume One: Royal Navy 1939-1941 has a drawing of Illustrious with disruptive camouflage and the caption .. this pattern was carried from late 1940 until the completion of her refit in the UK in 1942. This would tie in with Gazeley's date of 1940-12-14. Maddeningly, Raven says nothing about the first Alexandria painting mentioned by Gazeley on 1940-09-20/26 as that covers the Taranto period.

Poolman's book "Illustrious" published 1955, is silent on any stay in Alexandria in late September for repainting.

So, has any new research on this topic come to light? Has the deleted photo turned up elsewhere?

And I go whither?
I'm inclined to go with Option 2 if for no other reason that the author had access to the sources, including Alan Raven and took the trouble to include a 2 page color spread showing overall medium gray. But, I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 650
Location: UK
The Australian War Memorial has film FL 03482 shot from HMAS Stuart in the Med in late 1940. At 05:07:54 or so there begins a sequence whilst escorting the fleet in September 1940. It includes distant views of Illustrious. Pause these images and it is clear she wore a patterned camouflage at that time (two months before Taranto).

This would probably be the picture you mention of her returning from Taranto:

Attachment:
Illustrious d after Taranto - Copy - Copy.JPG
Illustrious d after Taranto - Copy - Copy.JPG [ 44.1 KiB | Viewed 4972 times ]


Leaving aside the question of tone, the detail of the pattern in this photo is different to that in a photo known to have been taken mid-December 1940 and others slightly later therefore supporting the idea that this does indeed show the return from Taranto in a first pattern scheme worn from Sept - Dec 1940 as Ian suggested.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:19 am
Posts: 8
Dick

I can't thank you enough. For those interested in the video, it can be found here: http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/F03482/

I trolled through the AWM site and found this video from HMAS Sydney: http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/F04776/ that at 1:02:24 has a much closer view of Illustrious in disruptive camouflage - the web site suggests this was part of a convoy operation starting 1940-10-08, only one month before Taranto

Here is a screen cap:
Image
HMS Illustrious med Oct 1940 - AWM screencap by cropredy-sfdc, on Flickr

As for the photo you posted, what is the source for that image? I thought I had seen every photo published of the Illustrious but this was new to me.

So, onto Alexandria-type camouflage!

Thanks again


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 650
Location: UK
Sorry, no idea where that image came from.

The AWM is wonderful. They keep adding digitised stuff and all for free. That film you have found is very good.

Now I'm going to fly a kite. It seems to me that the photos I have of Illustrious newly-commissioned and working-up show her in medium grey AP507B. I suggest that the 5 days painting ship at Bermuda recorded in her log simply re-touched/refreshed that. Hence why it is said she arrived in the Mediterranean in overall medium grey. (Can anyone think of any ship at that time joining the Med Fleet that arrived at Alexandria already painted in an Alexandria scheme?) They all arrived whichever way they were painted and, when time allowed, then self-repainted at Alexandria, sometimes months after arriving. They did not always manage to complete the job in one go hence the odd picture of a ship half-repainted. Ian Gazeley reports the log recording six days of painting at Alexandria in September. Was it actually six full days, morning and afternoon I wonder? Having looked at other ships logs and the amount of time it took other very much smaller ships to self-repaint just the 507A elements of a pattern over pre-existing 507C I'm going to suggest maybe this was not enough time to complete the job on a ship as large as Illustrious. Could it be that at this time what happened was the painting-on of the dark grey 507A pattern over the existing 507B medium grey and that a resulting 507A/507B scheme explains the lack of contrast seen in the photos and film of Illustrious in the Med pre-mid December 1940? In your film compare it with the next very next ship shown, the Tribal, which demonstrates the stark 507A/507C contrast. Perhaps the painting-over of the remaining 507B areas with 507C (along with adjustments to the design of the 507A pattern) took place in December explaining why in photos and film from mid-December onwards there is so much more contrast between the two camouflage tones on Illustrious?

Others may of course have better photos that shoot down my theory. All comments welcome!

I have no photos of the portside in this early Alex scheme - do you?

Best wishes.


Last edited by dick on Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:19 am
Posts: 8
Dick

Interesting thinking about the 6 day painting task's feasibility.

I don't have a port side photo - I consider it lucky we even have what we have (!)

Raven's book - Camouflage Volume One: Royal Navy 1939-41 in the section on Alexandria type states the Illustrious' pattern was identical port vs starboard on the late 1940-42 (Gazeley's second Alexandria painting) hull.

So, a reasonable (Bayesian-based) assertion would be that the first Alexandria painting (pre Taranto) was also identical port v starboard. Most of the ships identified in Raven in the Alexandria-Type chapter are listed as having identical patterns, port vs starboard; lending further credence to this hypothesis.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:19 am
Posts: 8
Well, hull is now painted and it is onto the carrier deck. I'm going with dark gray for the deck itself. The question is - what was the color of the deck stripes (centerline, etc) in November 1940?

* Profile Warship #10, page 228-9 shows Illustrious as she was at Taranto with deck stripes a pale orange. However, as we have shown in the previous posts, the hull coloring in Warship#10 is wrong as it still shows overall medium gray. So, the source is not necessarily reliable.

* Gazeley, in this post on the Ark Royal, http://www.smsc-home.org/Colors--and--Camouflage.php, states her centerline was yellow throughout the war. Could this be a 'standard' that was also used on Illustrious?

* Best, I can tell, Raven has nothing on this topic.

Does anyone have any better information? I kind of like the pale orange from an aesthetic point-of-view


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 183 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group