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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:59 pm 
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Reading through the different threads of US carriers of the thirties, I missed a thread about the USS Ranger CV-4, which was one of three US-pre-war carriers, which survived the WWII.

I found two kits of the ship:

1. USS Ranger CV-4 from Iron Shipwrights in 1/350. On Steelnavy you will find pictures of the finished model.

2. USS Ranger CV-4 from Corsair Armada. Christoph Menzel has built the model in 1/700.

Both models show the ship as she looked in the WWII. Is it possible to modify the kits to show a Pre WWII model? Has anyone information about the airgroups and about a book with more detailed information about the ship?

Christian


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:20 am 
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you have this book with limited availability

http://www.amazon.com/USS-Ranger-Navys- ... 4FXHBEZBXP

cheers

Gilbert


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:22 pm 
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Some photos of Ranger pre-war, from NARA:


Attachments:
CV4RANGER AT COLON CZ 6APR1935 80G-455982_crop.JPG
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CV4 RANGER 2DEC41 80G212976._cropJPG.jpg
CV4 RANGER 2DEC41 80G212976._cropJPG.jpg [ 79.6 KiB | Viewed 5209 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:48 pm 
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Thanks for posting these pics, Martin! It's been a long time since I've opened my USS Ranger folder...

Dan :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Ranger's 1944 Booklet of General Plans is available in pdf for download here:
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/index.htm

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:44 pm 
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Here's some photos I scanned from the National Archives last week. They show Ranger in the dry-dock on May 7, 1934. Written on the photo are the words "last docking". I never noticed what looks like a secondary conn station on the Rangers bow, just under the flight deck overhang (first photo).


Attachments:
File comment: CV4_19LCM-CV4-11_050734-small
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File comment: CV4_19LCM-CV4-1_050734-small
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CV4_19LCM-CV4-1_050734-small.jpg [ 80.15 KiB | Viewed 4730 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Some more photos scanned at NARA II. These were all taken on August 18, 1942, according to the notations on some of the photos. Two interesting things - note the RNGR still visible on the flight deck and the unfinished camouflage on the hull (looks like there is a band of Ocean Gray running all the way around the ship).


Attachments:
File comment: CV4-BS32930
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File comment: CV4-7490
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File comment: CV4-BS32927
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File comment: CV4-BS32926
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File comment: CV4-BS32925
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CV4_BS32925_081842-small.jpg [ 39.78 KiB | Viewed 4731 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:30 pm 
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MartinJQuinn wrote:
I never noticed what looks like a secondary conn station on the Ranger's bow, just under the flight deck overhang (first photo).


Martin,

Most grateful for the clear photographs! Also noteworthy is the (apparent) lack of a "boot topping" above the rather clean-looking anti-foul on Ranger's hull; with a docking such as this, I must assume the photos were taken during a thorough maintenance refit. Any idea if this can be verified?

TIA,
Dan

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Dan,

She was commissioned less than a month later, on 6/4/34 - these photos may have been taken before they painted on the boot top?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:28 am 
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Hi, gang!

Anyone know anything about the forthcoming Trumpeter 1/350 USS Ranger? I'm curious as to whether the 1942 version they are offering will be fairly easy to back-date to the late 30s.

cheers,
Aggie


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Probably a silly question: would it be that hard to kitbash from an Enterprise Hornet or Yorktown?
cheers
J


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:13 pm 
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that is what I'm thinking of doing using 1 of my 5 Revell 1/487 scale Yorktown class aircraft carriers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:44 pm 
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Here's a link to the announcement on the Trumpeter Ranger in 1/350 scale from last March/April.

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 Post subject: Re: Ranger CV 4
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:58 pm 
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USS Ranger (CV-4), Booklet of General Plans, 7 July 1934; corrected to suit ship, up to 24 July 1944.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020465.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Ranger CV 4
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:15 pm 
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Also on Maritime.org's plans page right here if you want to distribute the bandwidth usage.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:37 pm 
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Just a little bump for those picking up the initial Trumpeter release (kit USS Ranger CV-4 05629). This kit depicts her in her Pacific Theater fit from July through

She left Norfolk on July 11 with no aircraft attached or embarked, according to her war diary and reached San Diego on July 25. The next day she started loading some 90 aircraft for transport to Oahu. They were listed as:

VF(N)-102
F6F-5N x 15
TBM-1C x 6

F4U x 39
SB2C-3 x 15
TBM-1C x 14
F6F-5P x 1

She departed on July 28 and reached Pearl Harbor on August 3rd. From this point on she was a training carrier


August 9 through 12 she conducted Carrier Air Group training for Air Groups 44 and 100, which flew out to the ship from Oahu.

August 15 through 19 she conducted training for Air Groups 3 and 100 before returning to Pearl Harbor..

August 24 through 28 she conducted training for Air Group 11 before returning to Pearl Harbor.

September 1 through 4th she trained CVLG(N)42 (CVL Night group) and CVLG44 (Air Group 44 mentioned above) and on September 5th she trained Air Group 3 again for a day before returning to Pearl Harbor.

September 9 through 11th she trained CVLG(N)42, CVG(N)-90, and "Night Aircraft Carrier Training Group Barbers Point" before returning to Pearl Harbor.

September 14th she trained Air Group 81 and then on the 15th & 16th Air Groups 4 and 81 before returning to Pearl Harbor.

That's pretty much the pattern she had until October, when she returned to San Diego and spent the rest of the war there repeating that pattern on the West Coast.

So, this kit isn't "good" for any significant action, but does give great options for air groups and camouflage (Dazzle Ms 33 1A or Ms 21), as well as being a neat ship with an interesting history in her own right.

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 Post subject: Re: Ranger CV 4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Tracy White wrote:
MIne's due to arrive tomorrow and I'll give it a good look-see. I'm not as familiar with Ranger's changes but am studying her today when I get time.


I'm figuring on a '40 or early '41 fit, with Mahogany flight deck and yellow-winged, green-tailed Wildcats. It looks like it will make little difference if you start with a '44 or '42 fit of the ship, as it's almost entirely about leaving off or removing things, you just leave off a little more from the '44 version.

A few key points:
The kit comes with 9 5"/38 gun mounts (3 ea. on 3 sprues), but these are not for use on the '44 fit and are clearly meant for the '42 release. However, they are incorrect for the '42 fit as well - Ranger only ever had 5"/25s, from commissioning till they were removed in '44. The sponsons for the 5" guns were not removed from the ship

As built, Ranger had 40 .50 Cal. machine guns in her catwalks and open railings, with small angled bump-outs at each gun. (See here: http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020458.jpg but note that in this very early fit, each 5" sponson only carries 1 mount instead of the usual 2; the other mounts are on the forecastle and stern decks) In early '42 the catwalks were extended out and scalloped, splinter-shielded, round platforms added for 20mm single mounts, owing to the guns larger size. In '44 several more of these same scalloped tubs were added. The kit comes with plenty of 20mm guns, but only 4 of the .50 cal mounts (probably some holdovers from her pre-war configuration, meant for the '42 fit kit.)

The deck structures fore and aft of the island were added in the '42 refit for 1.1" quad mounts. Prior to this there was nothing fore or aft of the conn. (See the picture cited above)

So, to convert:
Deletions: You'll need to shave off basically all the splinter shields and cut back decks added for 20mm & 40mm mounts. Carefully shave/sand away the raised locating tabs for the flight deck gun support structures and scribe-in the missing deck detail (small amount; not as bad as it could be.) Several components of the conning tower will be omitted, and some modified. Leave off the life rafts.
Additions: Add angled sheet plastic extensions at .50 cal positions. Get eight 5"/25 mounts (Veteran makes these; maybe others are out there too). Get forty .50 cal. water-cooled machine gun mounts (3D Model Parts has these), Get Trumpeter aircraft as needed for your preferred time period. Get more PE railings - most of the kit's catwalks are time-appropriately splinter-shielded, but backdating it requires open railings for all of them. You'll need several additional ship's boats (Not sure where to get these, of the types needed.)

All-told, probably one of the easiest (aside from acquiring the ship's boats) yet dramatic backdating conversions you can do in 1:350. And aside from the '42 fit kit maybe giving you 5 each of TBDs and F4Fs (and perhaps some SB2Us?), it really won't place you any closer (in terms of work involved) to a pre-war Ranger than the currently-available '44 fit. So, I went ahead and grabbed it. :)

- Sean F.


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 Post subject: Re: Ranger CV 4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:27 pm 
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First, I strongly suggest we start talking kit details in the "Calling all USS Ranger Fans!" thread for future readers. *EDIT* this has happened and a couple of posts here started in another thread, for those from the future wondering about odd continuity lapses. Thanks Martin!

SeanF wrote:
It looks like it will make little difference if you start with a '44 or '42 fit of the ship, as it's almost entirely about leaving off or removing things, you just leave off a little more from the '44 version.


I haven't finished my study of the ship yet. but there's a couple of other details to consider, depending on how the kit is done.

She had two different aft round-downs; a "longer" one similar in shape to the Lexington class (photos here, here, and here) and a constant radius "short" round down similar to the Yorktown and Essex class visible here. I don't have the exact date of this change figured out yet but it was at least by the May - July 1944 overhaul where her flight deck was modernized and strengthened.

Her stern AA fit changed as well, two 5"/25 guns pre-war switched for quad 1.1" mounts with two Mk 51 directors in between in 1942 (if not before - at least by April of 1942) and then a single quad 40MM with two 20MM guns outboard and a single Mk 51 director forward ("behind" the mount when looking forward from behind the ship) of the quad.

Minor detail notes:
* The platform for the smoke canisters under the aft end of the flight deck was cut down at some point. It's nearly full width early on but about half that width, port side only after her 1944 refit.
* The secondary control station (see Martin's photo here was cut back and the square windows changed to round portholes at least by January 1943.
* pipes for her steam whistle were run on the port side of the island from launch until probably the 1944 refit. These are visible directly under the chock a sailor is carrying in this picture. This was found to be "less than optimal" as at least one TBF crash into the island severed these pipes and they were moved to the starboard side, running in the same pattern as far as I've been able to trace.

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Last edited by Tracy White on Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ranger CV 4
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:16 am 
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Good point about the round-down, Tracy. The kit has the later type. I don't think it will be very hard to modify, though: no planking there at either configuration; cut off along a straight line, build a differently-shaped piece out of sheet plastic and glue it on.

The originally fitted bow and stern pairs of 5" guns ( http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020458.jpg ), were moved up to join their partners at the four corners of the flight deck at some point in the mid to late '30s. See: http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020403.jpg - I think that might be a canvas-covered practice loader in the port-side one. Funny thing, those four platforms were always big enough for two mounts each, though the ship complete with one in each, plus the pairs at bow and stern - did they perhaps originally plan for 12 mounts?
This August '42 photo: http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020420a.jpg shows the referenced stern 1.1 quads & director positions nicely, and the pairs of 5" mounts in the same positions as the previous photo - and note the letters RNGR still in use that late! (But certainly not in bright chrome yellow by that time)
Funny thing with the 5" mounts: the instructions point them out as "Options" in all eight locations (instruction pages 20 & 23). Seems the instruction writer wasn't so confident on the AA fit. Anyway, it looks like the key shape & size of the 5" platforms changed little, if at all, during the ship's lifetime; just what was placed there, in what quantity.

Correct about that aft platform; kit has it small and on port side (part D2, instruction page 20), as you've noted. Making a larger one will be easy. Some smoke canisters would be a nice detail to add, too: http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020421.jpg The kit has a set of vertically-standing gas cylinders (part E4, page 20)

You're right, the early-type secondary control station would need to be scratchbuilt; the relevant kit part (H4, instruction page 23), is a relatively small rectangular box with three portholes across its front face. From photos, it looks like the early-style might have been present through '42. Also, '42 photos show the ship with at least half of her 1930s boat complement, so if the '42 kit is done right there would be some advantage to starting a backdate from there after all.

As for the steam pipes, the kit doesn't have them on either side, nor does it provide PE pieces for them. Brass-rod detail addition here, for whichever fit you do.

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:21 pm 
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One thing I noticed that some modelers (as well as any good Photo-etch designers) will want to make note of concerns the base of the island on the flight deck. Trumpeter molded four watertight doors on the port side - these were actually "open air archways" that did not have doors at all. Three of them had wire gratings that were on vertical tracks that could be slid up, but otherwise covered about the lower 2/3 of the archway and lead to an open passageway on the port side of the island that ran most of the length of the island. You can see this on the Booklet of General Plans:

Image

Attachment:
File comment: CV-4 1944 Booklet of General Plans, Plate 5
CV-4 Island.jpg
CV-4 Island.jpg [ 64.95 KiB | Viewed 1961 times ]


Note the rectangles marked "arch" and the difference to the doors drawn inside the passageway. This is visible on this photo on her Navsource page.

This photo also highlights the inclined ladders from the main (hangar) deck to the flight deck. Trumpeter's PE gives you one ladder for the are forward of the island and one ladder for the area aft of the island. Another area for accuracy-focused builders and photo-etch designers to note.

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