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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:52 am 
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Location: Auburn, CA
Lost all the info on the "Big E". Let's rebuild "the most decorated warship of WWII !

Ken Nielsen :welcome:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:15 pm 
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So you want to build an early WWII USS Enterprise but your not sure what armament you will need for the time period you want to build. Well here is a time line that should help.
USS Enterprise CV-6
7-16-34 Laid down
10-03-36 Launched
5-12-38 Commissioned ( 8 ) 5"/38 cal (4) 1.1" (24) .50cal mg
9-39 Moved from San Diego to Pearl Harbor
9-39/11-41 Training and resuppling Pacific bases
Enterprise Is painted Ms 1 Dark Gray 5-D and Light Gray 5-L
Flightdeck is painted Norfolk 250 Flight deck stain
Hangar deck is painted Deck Gray 20-G
Hangar deck bulkheads and overhangs are painted White
Exterior decks are painted Deck Blue 20-B
Aircraft are painted Blue Gray (FS 35189) over Gray (FS 36440)(602 Non- Specular Light Gray) and would remain so until 1943
Aircraft fuselage codes were to be painted flat black(not all complied)
11-28-41 Leaves Pearl Harbor to deliver Pilots and their planes to Wake
Island
12-2-41 Pilots and planes delivered
Bad weather slows Enterprise's return to Pearl Harbor
12- 7-41 Enterprise is 150 to 200 miles west of Pearl Harbor
12 -8-41 Enterprise enters Pearl Harbor (takes on fuel and supplies)
12- 9-41 Enterprise leave Pearl Harbor to patrol the waters around the
Hawaiian Islands
12-10-41 Enterprise sinks enemy sub
In January 42 Red and White tail stripes are added to A/C
officially 7 red and 6 white stripes (not all complied with regulation orders)
1-11-42 Enterprise leaves Pearl Harbor for the Marshall Isl. raid ( 8 )
5"/38 cal (4) 1.1" (24/26) .50 cal mg
2-14-42 Wake Isl. raid
3- 4-42 Marcus Isl. raid
Enterprise returns to Pearl Harbor
At this time Enterprise receives 32x 20mm guns to replace most of her .50cal mgs.
Enterprise gets a new paint job
Measure 11( 5-S Sea Blue).
4- 8-42 Enterprise leaves Pearl Harbor for the Tokyo Raid ( 8 ) 5'/38cal
(4) 1.1" (32) 20mm (6) .50 cal mg
4-13-42 Enterprise rendezvous with Hornet
4-18-42 Planes are launched
4-26-42 Enterprise returns to Pearl Harbor
4-30-42 Enterprise and Hornet leave Pearl Harbor for the Coral Sea
In mid May the Navy issues ALNAV Dispatch 062230 that orders the removal of the Red tail stripes and Red circles from the National Insignias(crews had already started to do so before the ALNAV dispatch)
5-24-42 Enterprise returns to Pearl Harbor
5-28-42 Enterprise and Hornet leave Pearl Harbor for Midway
(8) 5"/38 cal (4) 1.1" (32) 20mm (6) .50cal
6- 4-42 Battle of Midway
6-13-42 Enterprise returns to Pearl Harbor --Enterprise gets an overhaul-
fifth 1.1' is added to the bow, two 20mm are added (cutouts)
in the aft flight deck rolldown and large double search light
platfrom on both sides ot the Island are reduced in size to mount
search light.
7-15-42 Enterprise leaves for the Solomon Islands (8) 5"/38cal (5) 1.1"
(32) 20mm (?) .50cal
8- 7-42 Guadalcanal Invasion
8-24-42 Battle of the Eastern Solomon Islands Enterprise recieves 3
direct bomb hits and 4 near misses
9-10-42 Enterprise returns to Pearl Harbor for repairs 4 quad 40mm
mounts replace the four 1.1" mounts by the island mark 4
radar is added small forward crane at front of island is
removed. It is replaced by a smaller crane/hoist. A 2nd 20mm
mount is added to the aft flt deck rolldown
flightdeck rolldown and 8 more to the catwalks. The forward
lower bridge on island is removed. SG and SC-! radars added.
10-16-42 Enterprise sails for the Solomon Islands (8) 5"/38 cal (4) 40mm
quad mounts (1) 1.1" (44) 20mm
10-26-42 Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands Enterprise receives 2 bomb
hits and two near misses
10-26-42 Enterprsie is the last operational carrier in the Pacific
10-27-42 "Enterprise vs Japan"
10-30-42 Enterprise enters Noumea, New Calidonia for repairs
10-11-42 Enterprise sails for Guadalcanal
11-11/15-42 Naval Battle for Guadalcanal
Enterprise returns to Noumea to complete her repairs
12- 3-42 Enterprise trains out of Espiritu Santo 1-29/30-43 Battle of Rennal Island Enterprise is covering the damaged
cruiser Chicago
5-27-43 Enterprise returns to Pearl Harbor
7-20-43 Enterprise enters Puget Sound Naval Shipyard at Bremerton,Wa.
for a complete overhaul.

This is just a start .
Additions and corrections welcome and wanted.

Gordon

References:
www.cv6.org
Squadron/Signal Pub. Warhips No 5 US Carriers in Action part 1
Steve Ewings' book "USS Enterprise CV6"
Classic Warships "Warship Pictorial #9 Yorktown Class Carriers"
"Airwar" Edward Jablonski Doubleday 1971
Aircraft Profile #53 Grumman F4F-3 Wildcat
Pictorial Histories Pub A Glorious Page in Our History "The battle of Midway" Cressman/Ewing
Squadron Signal Aircract No 191 F4F Wildcat in Action
Squadron Signal Aircraft No 84 F4F Wildcat in Action
Squadron Signal Aircraft No 64 SBD Dauntless in Action
Squadron Signal Aircraft No 97 TBD Devestator in Action
Ship Craft #3 "Yorktown Class Aircraft Carriers" Roger Chesneau

Posts over the last couple years by
Rich Mathsen
Michael Varrasi
Mike Pajewski
Dick J


Last edited by Gordon Bjorklund on Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:10 am, edited 11 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:14 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Hi Gordon,

I, too, would like to build the Big E, in 1/350 scale one day... unfortunately, it is only available in resin form at $650US+... $800+Canadian!!!

I have one book that I would recommend to all Big E fans. 'The Big E: The Story of the USS Enterprise' by Edward Stafford. It is an excellent account of many stories compiled by the author told in chronological sequence. It is very well written and it kept me up many evenings until I finish the whole book. You can find it at the Naval Institute website usni.org. I built my first battleship (with PE!) model after reading the book in the early 1990s. Will someone in Hollywood turn it into a Pearl Harbor like film? Let's hope so :eyebrows:

Hope this is useful.
:surfer:

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"Live Long and Prosper"...Spock


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:30 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
BTW, I forgot to mention that I have also purchased two Floating Drydocks plans of the CV-6. Both are excellent reference material.

One is approx 1:350 scale (looks like pre-war config) and the second one (in storage) was around 1:144 scale(?)... If anyone need some measurements, etc... I can dig up the larger plan.

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"Live Long and Prosper"...Spock


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:19 pm 
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Location: Peoria AZ
A project that I want to do is a 1/350 1944 CV-6 Enterprise. I am collecting reference material and am wondering if Shipcraft 3 Yorktown Class Carriers has any good information on this ship?

Interested in dazzle scheme, AA fit etc.

Here is what I think is involved in this project
1 Trumpeter Hornet $90 (good grief $90 for parts)
2 Wood hull $10 (waterline is easy)
3 L'arsenal AA guns $50
4 PE $50
5 Wood deck $50
6 FDD plans $30
7 Planes $30

A rational person would at this point say "get the resin kit" but that is no fun!

If Evergreen N scale car siding works out on the scratch CVL's, I can elninate #5. If the book is worthwhile I can elmiate #6.

Any info or comments will be appreciated.

Jim


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:40 pm 
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Location: EG48
This is from Gordon... slight misspost

Gordon Bjorklund wrote:
Using Tamiya's 30 yr old kit as a starting place, you can build just about any configuration you want. Prewar through VJ-Day using a combination of the following kits and aftermarket accessories you can do this. This is a partial list of accessories (the ones I have used) . There are more and will be added later as I come across them.

You will need both the Tamiya Enterprise and Hornet kits to start with.(you also need both kits if you want to do a Hornet build) Do you supose Tamiya knew this when they produced these kits?

Tamiya products
77514 USS Enterprise CV-6 (1 or 2 kits needed)
77510 USS Hornet CV-8

Corsair Armada products
7001 PE 20 mm and resin pedistals

Eduard products ( I have not used this product)
17001 PE Enterprise CV-6

Fujimi products
45101 USN Navy A/C (F4F's - F4F's w/folded wings - SBD's - TBF's)

Gold Medal Models products
700-17 Naval Figures
700-18 A/C parts
700-20 Anchors & Chains
700-21 20mm cannons
700-22 Water tight doors
700-3D National A/C Insignia Decals
350-6D National A/C Insignia Decals ( 1/350th scale)

Midship Models products
MPK70050 1/700 USN Weapons Set

Skywave/Pitroad Products
SWE-06 USN Equiptment Early war

Tom's Model Works products
706 US WWII Radar
711 20mm Guns & Shields
712 A/C Props & Wheels
742 Perforated Catwalks
752 US Carrier Flotation Baskets

Trumpeter Products
05716 USS Lexington CV-2 (.50cal mg-20mm-1.1" -A/C - Decals Red &
White Rudder stripes)
03418 US Navy A/C WWII (F4U's-F6F's-TBF's-F4F's-SB2C's-TBD-SBD's
B-25B's NO red & white tail stripes w/decals

White Ensign Models
755 PE Enterprise/Hornet

Again this is just a partial list. Additions and corrections wanted and needed.

Gordon

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:01 pm 
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Hi Jim,

I've looked up the two old Floating Dry Dock plans of the CV-6 I bought way back and the 1/96 plan is dated 12/44. The plan contains five huge sheets approx 2' x 9' and has very good details for many of the levels.

I have never scratch build a ship before so I cannot tell you whether you will have enough info from the plan to complete your project. But if you have specific question about the plans, I can look through it for you.

Also, the Steve Ewing book listed in Gordon Bjorklund's list has a black and white photo of the Big E in Aug 44 departing Pearl 'with her new dazzle paint job' as stated in the caption. The photo shows the full port profile with the paint scheme.

Hope this helps and good luck with your project.

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"Live Long and Prosper"...Spock


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:41 am 
Hi guys,

I tought a fairly accurate CV6 could be built by adding the Nautilus resin conversion set + wood deck to the CV8 Trumpeter kit (OK may be correcting the too blunt bow).
How come nobody mentions them ?

Ciao

Luca


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:30 am 
Hi, Luca. The main problem with the Trumpeter kit, from what I understand, is not just the bow. It's the shape of the entire hull. It's slab-sided, whereas the YORKTOWN class had sloping sides on the hull below the hangar deck. I would suspect that there would be a tremendous amount of filling and sanding involved to get even an approximately correct hull form. That being said, if you can live with the hull, the Nautilus items would give you a pretty accurate Big-E otherwise.

Regards,
Rich


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 Post subject: Enterprise conversion
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:50 pm 
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Here is a site that Tracy posted on the SN site that talks about the conversion. You can see what David Gatt has done to correct the bow .

http://web.mac.com/davidgatt/My_Model_S ... hips_.html

HTH

Gordon


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 7:30 am 
That's an impressive build, but I couldn't help notice that the caption says November 1943, and yet the model as built is close to June 1942. No complaint here, just an observation.


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:51 am 
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Location: Naples, italy
Hy guys,

does anyone have first hand experience on the Tom's hangar set ?

I honestly do not get what it was from Tom's site only pic of it.
From the photos of the article by David Gatt it seems he used a set which is somewhat different from the similar WEM Hornet interior kit.

Were the ships that much different ?

I own the WEM kit I am thinking of buying also the Tom's kit.
I also noticed that David Gatt corrected the bow only below waterline, this should mean that since I am planning to build CV8 and CV6 in a waterline diorama, OOB hull shape should be almost OK, or should not it ?

Hi Rich in particular. I went checking the CV8 kits (well tehy are 2 of course..) and noticed that below the hangar hull sides have some slope.
May be not enough ? Or did I not get what you meant correctly ?

Ciao and thanks

Luca


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:09 am 
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I don't have either the WEM or Tom's hangar set, but I do know that the Tom's has a resin structure for the over head of the hangar mid-ships that represents spaces and other structures while the WEM kit has girders that run through the entire length of the hangar deck. The Tom's kit is correct in its depiction of this area.

No, it is not just the bow on the Trumpeter (and Yankee Model Works) kits that is incorrect. To get it totally right you need to at least rebuild from the hangar deck down to the waterline, the entire length of the hull. I haven't checked close enough yet to know if the shape of the deck on the hangar deck itself is correct.

There's a review of the Hornet kits on this site that shows the hull problems pretty clearly. Especially this photo which puts the Trumpeter hull next to the accurate Revell hull. Huge difference.

Image

Granted a lot of people build these models out of the box, don't care about the hull problems, and most people won't notice it. If you want a correct Yorktown class model, though, you have to deal with this problem.

-Devin


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:58 am 
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Ciao (hi in italian) Devin,

thanks a lot, that additional reference now explains it all.

I'll discard both lower hulls and see if I can correct the shape of the upper hull beetween waterline and hanger deck level.
I had no time to check it carefully but it seems that one could concentrate on the forward section from about below the forward sponson to the stem.

I also figure out Tom's interior kit. I am a bit disappointed at WEM, the kit is nice but since you confirmed the ship were equal and Tom's resin parts are correct it is a shame WEM did not consider the underhanging solid structure.

Besides WEM makes also you scratch build the uptake/below hangar bulkheads. Quite easy but annoying nonetheless.

Well,.. Tom is going to get an order.

One more question
I noticed that YMW Enterprise has a prominent tubing all along the hull, which is missing from Trumpeter kit.

May be it was added in the late war refit of her ?

Ciao to all my friends

Luca


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 Post subject: YMW Enterprise
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 10:45 am 
Hi, Luca. If I recall correctly, the YMW Big E is a post-Bremerton version, i.e., after October, 1943. Between July and October, ENTERPRISE received a major overhaul which added bulges to the hull, moved the degaussing cable to inside the hull, and mounted gasoline lines along the outside of the hull, rather than the former internal ones, among many other changes.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 10:54 am 
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Yeah, what Rich said! Later in the war carriers had a profusion of outer hull piping for fuel and gas lines. Tracy White told me it was in direct response to the loss of Lexington at Coral Sea. I don't have any Hornet or Enterprise photos to check right now, but I do know that Yorktown's prominent external cabling was for degaussing.

As far as the WEM and Tom's hangar set goes, it really comes down to what you can see. Working on the Essex right now, you can't see much in there, I can tell you that. Also on a Yorktown class, you don't have a deck-edge elevator to open up, so you'll see even less. One thing you might want to check is see if the Tom's girders are relief etched in that set. WEM's should be, and if the girders are more prominent, it might be worth scratchbuilding the under deck sections to get the relief etched PE.

-Devin


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 12:14 pm 
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Gordon Bjorklund wrote:
9-39/11-41 Training and resuppling Pacific bases
Enterprise is painted in Measure 11 5-S Sea Blue
Flightdeck is painted Norfolk 250 Flight deck stain
Hangar deck is painted Deck Gray 20-G
Hangar deck bulkheads and overhangs are painted White
Exterior decks are painted Deck Blue 20-B

11-28-41 Leaves Pearl Harbor...


Gordon, when did the ship take-on her Measure One paint that was ordered by the USN in March 1940? Also, what color were the ship's flight deck and deck markings at this early period? Originally her Douglas Fir flight decks were stained "cedar" and had "EN" painted in yellow, fore and aft. When did these disappear, if you have this information?

Thanks! :wave_1:

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 Post subject: Big E Ms 1
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:28 pm 
Dan: There is a color photo at the CV-6 site, which shows ENTERPRISE in Ms 1 in June, 1941, albeit with a stained flight deck that resembles cedar. While the photo is back-lit, you can make out the demarcation between the 5-D and 5-L. When scenes from the movie "Dive Bomber" were shot on board in April, 1941, she was still in her peacetime light gray, as can be seen in the opening sequence from that film.


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:46 pm 
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Gordon Bjorklund wrote:
USS Enterprise CV-6
7-16-34 Laid down
10-03-36 Launched
5-12-38 Commissioned ( 8 ) 5"/38 cal (4) 1.1" (24) .50cal mg
9-39 Moved from San Diego to Pearl Harbor
9-39/11-41 Training and resuppling Pacific bases
Enterprise is painted in Measure 11 5-S Sea Blue
Flightdeck is painted Norfolk 250 Flight deck stain
Hangar deck is painted Deck Gray 20-G
Hangar deck bulkheads and overhangs are painted White
Exterior decks are painted Deck Blue 20-B

Gordon



According to this timeline, can it be safely assumed that Enterprise never wore Measure One between 3/40 and 5/41?

Dan


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 Post subject: Ms 1
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:05 am 
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Hi Dan, I would say it is safe to say that Enterprise was not painted Ms 1 during that time period. (3/40-4/41)

Rich Mathsen's post above gives to different dates and two different colors.
1. The color picture of Enterprise in Ms 1 June 1941.
2. The movie "Dive Bomber" where she is painted light gray (Standard Navy Gray #5 ?)

All the pictures that are dated 1938 up to the movie "Dive Bomber" show Enterprise to be painted light gray. We can tell that the pictures taken of Enterprise off of Hawaii dated 1940 were taken before Jan 41. The deck has F3F Biplanes on it. I think that Ranger and Wasp were the first two ships to get the F4F's and that was in Dec 40 and Jan 41 and they were stateside. So Enterprise would have got them after that date. Enterprise is painted Light gray in those pictures.

The first picture of Enterprise painted Ms 1 is dated June 1941.

So we can say that Enterprise was painted Ms 1 after the movie "Dive Bomber" was shot aboard the ship April 1941.

Rich Mathsen is our resident Enterprise historian. There is not much if anything that he doesn't know about that ship. If you haven't read his posts in the " Message Boards" models and replicas on http://www.cv6.org/ do so. click on preferences, select all posts. There's some good info there.

Dan is that the time period that you will be doing yor prewar ship in?

I have a spare hull that I have started drilling out another row of portholes for a prewar ship.

Now with the future release of the Pitroad/Trumpeter 1936 1/700 Saratoga we will have planes to put on the decks of of prewar ships. (Yes!! all that color!)

HTH

Gordon

Yorktown Class Carriers: The right ships, the right crews, the right time.


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