The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:55 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2655 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 133  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10443
Location: EG48
Edited by Tracy: We had about half a page of the beginning of this thread wiped out accidentally, so apologies for the abrupt start.

One thing I thought to mention tonight while looking over pictures of Tico is that if you *do* raise the doors on a dazzle scheme'd ship, be sure to adjust the paint on that door! It is very clear if one pays attention that the lines don't line up once the door's raised a bit. Kinda a cool little detail to have.

Here's another picture for those making later-war Essex ships. When the extra quad 40mm mounts were added on the aft starboard quarter, clipping rooms were also added where the ammo could be prepared. The exact details tended to vary from ship to ship, so consult your references or be prepared to make an educated guess. But from what I've seen, in most cases one of the roller doors in this area was removed and the clipping room installed outboard of its location. Another was installed aft of the crane, and both are visible as the small white blocks in the below picture:

Image

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Last edited by Tracy White on Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:29 pm
Posts: 1284
Location: Tempe, Arizona
To kind of illustrate what Tracy means by the camo on the doors, take a look at a pic of my Yorktown in progress. The aft roller doors you can see it clearly.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/ ... rboard.jpg


Thanks for reminding me of those clipping rooms Tracy! I'll need to go back and add those.

_________________
-Abram


Last edited by ArizonaBB39 on Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:46 am
Posts: 2409
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Tracy,

Might as well take these conversations to the board, maybe someone else can get something out of them, too.

I looked at photos of CV-9 last night, and found that the plans in the Warship's Perspectives book on the Essex class are not totally correct for either as launched, or as she was entering combat in the Pacific in '43. Most notable are photos of the two 2-gun 20mm batteries hanging off of the after flight deck, and the outboard island 20mm galleries (there are galleries in both plans and photos, but numbers don't correspond, still researching).

Question: You've got the Dragon 1/700 CV-9 kit that you plan on doing in her funky experimental camo scheme, pre refit, correct? Any idea yet how close that is to the Trumpeter 1/350th kit? If I have to remove and change 20 mm galleries for a '43 version, I might as well look into building her later so I can do the cool camo scheme. And if the Dragon kit is close then I can pick it up for reference.

Yeah, so much for my OOB build of this kit.

-Devin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Hangar doors...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 369
Location: Marinha Grande - Leiria, Portugal.
Hi there to all Essex fans...
I have a question to you all... How often did Essex ships travelled with the hangar doors CLOSED ???? I noticed they usually had (most of the time) open doors, but did they ever closed them ???...And when ???

Thanks...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:46 am
Posts: 2409
Location: Hoboken, NJ
My understanding is that they were always open except for heavy weather, and sometimes when they needed to light the hangar deck for maintenance at night. I want to say that they stayed open even during battle, but I can't find anything to verify that.

-Devin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 8151
Location: New Jersey
jmchaica wrote:
Devin wrote:
I want to say that they stayed open even during battle, but I can't find anything to verify that.


Exactly...here´s one point I would like to know about... How about in combat ??? Were they open ???

:cool_2: .


I'd say they were open. Here's two pictures which show them open, one of Yorktown during the Marianas operations, one of Hornet off Okinawa. Since an attack could develop at anytime, and they are open in these pictures, I'd say they kept them open during combat ops.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... 238298.jpg
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... k14466.jpg

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Last edited by MartinJQuinn on Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10443
Location: EG48
Carriers always had problems with heat, and the Essexes were no exception. They had to run the exhaust through the hangar bay to the island, so the metal in that area heated up and radiated out.

So even during times of battle they'd have the doors open. The farther north they went and the cooler it got, the less the doors were opened, They would also be closed at night while work went on to prevent the ship from making a nice target for submarines.

There were also concerns with water build up in the hangar bay, not during storms per se, but during battle damage actions. The fire supression systems inside the hangar were so effective at putting out water quickly that water could build up inside the hangar very rapidly and hurt the stability of the ship.

That's why pretty much every picture you see of a damaged Essex class has a list to it; not because of underwater damage, but because of all of the water they pumped into the hangar bay. Later on the figured out that this was a good way to fight fires; put an intentional list to the ship and wash the fire overboard.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 369
Location: Marinha Grande - Leiria, Portugal.
Thanks to all of you, who answered my question... :thumbs_up_1:
I guess I´ll have to open my Yorktown hangar doors all the way :lol_3:
By the way, I´m having some difficulty finding out exactly how many 40mm guns (4x) did Yorktown had in the last months of the war, more precisely in June 45, when Airgroup 88 was on board. Some references say 17, others say 16... Any help ???
Thanks...

:cool_2: .


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10443
Location: EG48
Should be 17
* One on the Bow
* One on the forward open 5" gallery (Port side)
* Two immediatedly aft on the old hangar cat platform
* Three between the #2 elevator (port side) and the aft open 5" gallery (port side still)
* Two on the stern
* Two on the starboard side aft, around the rear starboard crane.
* Three on sponsons underneath the island
* Three on the island itself

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10443
Location: EG48
OK, a little update for people. Nautilus models has released wood decks for long-hull Essexes. The Tico kit's is wrong for any time period (see my review if this is news to you) so his decks work to fix this. There is a 1944 short deck and a 1945 regular deck. There is a Korean War era deck in the works as well. Price is the same as the other decks and can be ordered directly via e-mail or phone for now; the website will be updated after Thanksgiving.

He said he's only received one request to do essex decks in 1/700th scale, so if you want this drop him a line so he knows.

Nautilus Web Site

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:52 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Mississippi
Ok guys, I have a question; I'm stumped I've looked a books pics and I have yet to find pics of where the 20mm ready service lockers are placed, my guess would be where the mounts are located but no evidence that shows this any help is welcomed. Chad


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10443
Location: EG48
If you're referring to the ones on the catwalks, it's sort of a two part answer. The clipping rooms were under the flight deck. The actual drums were mounted on the bulkhead behind the mounts on pegs. I do not know if there were 20mm lockers outside of the clipping rooms off the top of my head but I'll check when I get home tonight.

I also don't have a good clear shot of the 20mm drums on the bulkheads, but I have a couple of shots that show them from the side (proving they're there).

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:48 am
Posts: 12
I'm starting work on the Trumpeter Ticonderoga and I've hit a wall with the paravane rig.

Tico and Randolph seem to have had a unique paravane rig with holes under each anchor for the chains. The chains apparently go down under the bow and come up in pipes on the centerline. On the short hulls, and I believe the later long hulls, the pipes come all the way up to the foc'sle. Tico and Randolph seem like they might stop a deck or two down?

If someone knows the answer or even better has pictures that show the rig I'd be very greatfull.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:46 am
Posts: 2409
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Another question: I'm cutting out the hangar doors on my CV-9 build (thanks for the tip Tracy, it works great), but I have a question about the doors that open out onto the deck edge elevator. My assumption is that during flight quarters, the tracks for the doors would be removed to facilitate aircraft going in and out of the opening. In order for this to happen, the doors have to be rolled all of the way up, totally out of sight, correct? I'm going on the assumption that that is true, but I can't find any photos of that opening anywhere to verify.

Thanks,

Devin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10443
Location: EG48
jmchaica wrote:
Did the hangar deck had any sheer, or was it straight ??? Seems to me it had a slight sheer to it, but I´m not sure...


I'm not *quite* sure what you mean by this. If you mean the bulkheads above the deck in the hangar area then no, there was no sheer.

grim reaper wrote:
ok guys, does anyone have pics of each portside elevator supports i have the hanger deck level but need the rest any help is welcomed.


Are you talking about the framework on the side of the ship to support the elevator track?

James Noblin wrote:
If someone knows the answer or even better has pictures that show the rig I'd be very greatfull.


This is the best shot I have of Ticonderoga, taken Post war (October 1945).

Image

Compare that to this shot of CV-19 Hancock, also taken Post-war (1946)

Image

Looks like there was a slight difference in placement but not deck level to me.

Devin wrote:
In order for this to happen, the doors have to be rolled all of the way up, totally out of sight, correct?


I think I've seen some pictures where maybe only the middle three were opened, but otherwise everything looks like they opened them all the way'; they'd need to do that to get the vertical tracks for the roller doors out of the way anyway.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:52 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Mississippi
Tracy wrote:
Are you talking about the framework on the side of the ship to support the elevator track?


yep that is what i'm needing . Chad


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10443
Location: EG48
does this help?

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Last edited by Tracy White on Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:52 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Mississippi
somewhat are there any top views of them that would be more of a help. Chad


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10443
Location: EG48
If this doesn't help you're on your own.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Last edited by Tracy White on Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 369
Location: Marinha Grande - Leiria, Portugal.
Does anybody knows where can I find some Hangar deck pictures ??? Any vessel, any year between 1943/45...
The reason is that although I have some drawings of the hangar deck, I have very few pictures of it, and would like to get some more reference to my project...
Thanks again...

:cool_2: .


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2655 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 133  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group