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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:24 pm 
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John W. wrote:
Mike -
Thanks for the info and pix. Hope all is well.
Also hope someone will deliver an accurate wood deck for HORNET in 1/350th to use on Merit kit. Looks as though Pontos is fading away and isn't likely to deliver anytime soon, if at all.
Still, some of the light AA done by 3DParts is really good - 20 mm and .50 cal as well as some awesome looking quad 1.1" mounts, so there's that to be thankful for.



Would a 3D printed forward flight deck work? I have Merit CV-5 and 6 kits. After study, I think I will order another CV-6 kit to use for conversion to CV-8. I think I can rework a Trumpy CV-8 island to work, and plastic sheet and strip can fill in the many small details, but the forward flight deck is still an issue. (Besides lots of sandpaper!)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:04 am 
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Mike -
My first thought was that you obviously have the Trump deck as a starting point for the bow section. It is not too far off, and you may find it acceptably close by using just the part of it that contains the "notch" (the first 1 1/2" or so) instead of the continuous taper on the Merit deck. You will probably want to rescribe the Trump overscale tiedown strips, but there are only four to deal with in that 1 1/2".
I'd recommend you consider taking a plug out of the Trump deck for both pallisades and grafting them into the Merit deck. You would have to do more scribing to get the Trump plugs to look good on the Merit deck, but the Merit pallisades are a poor representation and worth replacing.

Of course, my hope is a correct wood deck from a quality manufacturer. ARTWOX does make a YORKTOWN deck, but it has the same issues with the pallisades. It is possible that the Artwox deck could be reworked using some of the scrap on the sheet after the deck is removed. After all, you don't need to redo the whole foredeck, just the parts outboard of the cats on both sides. And you'll want to replace the decking on the starboard side of the island since Artwox out-Trumped Trump by putting tiedown strips there (!!). While I'm at it, you'll have to cut into the deck and add the same bomb elevators in the picture above and the torpedo elevator outboard of the #2 aircraft elevator. If you are willing to scratch the HORNET island from the Trump island, I wouldn't think these items would stop you. All told, looking at the Artwox deck, I think there is enough scrap leftover - including a blank piece 2 1/2" X 3 3/8" - to make it work if you put your mind to it. One way or another, my HORNET will have a wooden deck so I am thinking in those terms.

Notice I have craftily not directly answered your question about 3D printed deck. I suspect it's doable, just not sure how fragile the final deck would be. For me for the Merit deck, I'd want not just a bow piece but also the pallisade inserts, the bomb/torpedo elevators and the metal parts of the aircraft elevators since they were not wood and the different texture inserted into the wooden deck would be noticeable in the model. Could I scribe those extra parts in plastic? I suppose after several tries I'd get to an acceptable result - the aircraft elevators with the multiple concentric rings would be difficult. But I would be happy to go with either P/E or 3D for those instead.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:00 pm 
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John W. wrote:
Mike -
My first thought was that you obviously have the Trump deck as a starting point for the bow section. It is not too far off, and you may find it acceptably close by using just the part of it that contains the "notch" (the first 1 1/2" or so) instead of the continuous taper on the Merit deck. You will probably want to rescribe the Trump overscale tiedown strips, but there are only four to deal with in that 1 1/2".
I'd recommend you consider taking a plug out of the Trump deck for both pallisades and grafting them into the Merit deck. You would have to do more scribing to get the Trump plugs to look good on the Merit deck, but the Merit pallisades are a poor representation and worth replacing.

Of course, my hope is a correct wood deck from a quality manufacturer. ARTWOX does make a YORKTOWN deck, but it has the same issues with the pallisades. It is possible that the Artwox deck could be reworked using some of the scrap on the sheet after the deck is removed. After all, you don't need to redo the whole foredeck, just the parts outboard of the cats on both sides. And you'll want to replace the decking on the starboard side of the island since Artwox out-Trumped Trump by putting tiedown strips there (!!). While I'm at it, you'll have to cut into the deck and add the same bomb elevators in the picture above and the torpedo elevator outboard of the #2 aircraft elevator. If you are willing to scratch the HORNET island from the Trump island, I wouldn't think these items would stop you. All told, looking at the Artwox deck, I think there is enough scrap leftover - including a blank piece 2 1/2" X 3 3/8" - to make it work if you put your mind to it. One way or another, my HORNET will have a wooden deck so I am thinking in those terms.

Notice I have craftily not directly answered your question about 3D printed deck. I suspect it's doable, just not sure how fragile the final deck would be. For me for the Merit deck, I'd want not just a bow piece but also the pallisade inserts, the bomb/torpedo elevators and the metal parts of the aircraft elevators since they were not wood and the different texture inserted into the wooden deck would be noticeable in the model. Could I scribe those extra parts in plastic? I suppose after several tries I'd get to an acceptable result - the aircraft elevators with the multiple concentric rings would be difficult. But I would be happy to go with either P/E or 3D for those instead.

Thinking back on the BWN disaster still in my stash, a PE sheet to overlay on the plastic kit deck might also work, if one became available. I think details would be a lot crisper than a wood deck. Still in pipe dreaming phase!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:23 pm 
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Mike -
Roger. I still have the BWN disaster in my stash too. Except it looks much better than it did originally. Really wish I had the Merit kit(s) back before I sent away big coin for the resin kit, though. Sanding down the offending Merit hull plating is very small potatoes compared to carving, cursing, sanding, cursing, grating, cursing, chiseling, and cursing the resin hull into shape.
Attachment:
hornet 001-ps.jpg
hornet 001-ps.jpg [ 82.46 KiB | Viewed 2695 times ]


As I'm sure you know from previous conversations, I really like a wood deck made with veneer thickness wood strips. I have done two carrier decks and I really like the results from every angle. The two sets I've used had companion P/E sets that add the details such as the flight deck elevators and other normally metallic flight deck fittings. In the two sets I used, the elevators fit into the decks (after the wood is removed from those places) with near perfection and the metal parts are split such that the elevator could be posed in the down position. I have painted the wood decks using Colorcoats enamels without any issue. I am careful to blend the rounddowns into the wood flight deck with a strip of .005 plastic on the rounddown that I taper to the existing plastic of the rounddown. I also find any and all details laser etched into the wood to be crisp.

In general, it is my opinion that a P/E deck would be challenging to get down as smoothly as a wood deck. The problem of unequal expansion of the metal and underlying plastic could result in the P/E deck pulling up - maybe the very day it is on display at the Nationals as would be my luck. I know some worry about the same problem with wood decks, but I have not had that problem so far in the three years I have had the two decks attached.

As always, I respect what others choose to do. This is what I did.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:43 pm 
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Mike Vorassi, 85% design complete. Shape check, please.


Attachments:
Model Monkey CV-8 island.p.jpg
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Model Monkey CV-8 island.q.jpg
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Model Monkey CV-8 island.r.jpg
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HORNET island scans016.small.jpg
HORNET island scans016.small.jpg [ 193.19 KiB | Viewed 2586 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:30 pm 
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ModelMonkey wrote:
Mike Vorrasi, 85% design complete. Shape check, please.

Looks righteous.

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 5:29 pm 
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Thanks, Mike!

And here it is:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=162105&p=690236#p690236

You can get one here:
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/Model_Monkey

A comparison of the islands of the ships of the Yorktown class:


Attachments:
Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.a.jpg
Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.a.jpg [ 196.75 KiB | Viewed 2499 times ]
Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.b.jpg
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Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.c.jpg
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Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.d.jpg
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Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.e.jpg
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Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.f.jpg
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Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.g.jpg
Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.g.jpg [ 168.14 KiB | Viewed 2499 times ]
Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.h.jpg
Model Monkey Yorktown class Islands.h.jpg [ 194.86 KiB | Viewed 2499 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 6:41 pm 
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Darn fine job sir!!! :thumbs_up_1: Its amazing to see how different the 3 ships were at the same time period.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:32 am 
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Time for a bump since many other CVs have crowded to the fore.

In case you are wondering, it does not appear to me, though hopefully I am wrong, that anything new is just around the corner for us (1/350) HORNET fans. Steve did a terrific job on the HORNET island - I know firsthand. But the new Infini detail up set for CV-5 does not appear likely at this time to be followed up with a CV-8 specific set. I have asked, Infini replied that there are a number of projects on their plate, but thanks for the interest, and so on.
There are a couple of possibilities for us, and one is to write the manufacturers making the same request as I have. The detail up set for YORKTOWN is not that much different from a potential HORNET set, but in Infini's defense, there is no HORNET kit a set could be easily adapted for (I am leaving out Trump's HORNET because of the amount of work required that would not transfer over from the Merit kit-based detail up set.) So that's the bad news.
The good news is that the Infini detail up set and replacement flight deck will mostly fit a Merit kit based rendering of HORNET. First off, I don't own stock in any of the companies mentioned here, just giving my experience and opinion. Secondly, I have long been working on what turned out to be a scratchbuilt HORNET since both the Trump and BWN kits were so far off I was not willing to accept them. In the course of the scratchbuild, I think I know most every part of the ship having tried to fabricate much of it so far. Thirdly, I have been working on the Infini detail set for the last two weeks.
My conclusion is that a really great and accurate HORNET is possible with the Merit kit and several key aftermarket sets / parts. But it's gonna cost ya.
Steve's HORNET island is my first choice, though the Trump island could be bashed with considerable effort. See Mike Sills' rendering in this thread way back in time (somewhere between pages 10 and 20 I'd guess). Steve's product will save you a lot of time and it is made from USN plans. The cost was worth the time savings for me.
The Infini detail set will knock your socks off. Pretty much everything is there - and I mean everything. Look at their website for pictures, and see if you can get a look at the instructions. Be warned this is quite an undertaking. But so is scratchbuilding - I had some difficulties getting lengths and angles on my plastic scratchbuilt parts to match up among other things - problems add up in a long and narrow ship model. But the Infini P/E and other parts are the result of CAD. 'Nuf said.
Some changes are necessary for HORNET-specific details such as the front of the flight deck. But I found that bit actually to be pretty easy since triangular 'wings' were just added to the original YORKTOWN forward end. I just cut a triangular piece from the fret adjacent to where the flight deck base is etched so that the side angles were identical and just stuck it onto the side of the base. Presto, HORNET flight deck forward end. Many newer models are beginning to replicate the busy look of the early carriers under the fore and aft edges of the flight deck. Post hurricane bow CVs are just not as interesting looking in my view. Infini does this proud - I know because I've tried to duplicate the look and it takes LOTS of time.
The wooden flight deck will require some work because HORNET's deck is wider in some areas, and Merit missed a couple of small areas where even their YORKTOWN kit flight deck is a bit off. There is probably enough extra wooden material in the set to do the changes required, but the extra wood is not laser etched for details such as planking so it will take some effort to blend the add-ons to the precut deck.
In my opinion, HORNET modelers have a great opportunity in 1/350th to do an exceptional model. Needless to say I wish all this was available twenty years ago when my only choice was the BWN resin kit. And I was thinking then "This is so expensive, it must be right and accurate."
Passing along what I've learned. Feel free to use this as you see fit - either way.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:09 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:29 am 
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I just got the 1/200 Merit kit and gave it a quick look over. Without spending mass $$$ on super detail sets, what is the overall impression of the kit out of the box, and are there any low cost aftermarket sets that can be had to dress up the model?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:11 pm 
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I'm presently working the same kit and have found the fit of the parts to be good even the hanger deck to the hull is a tight fit. Eduard makes pe for the kit and after market 20mm are available. I'm replacing the 20mm but staying with the kit pe for the time being.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:58 am 
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During the trip to the launch point during the Doolittle Raid, the hanger deck garage doors were closed and never opened as I recall? I want to build my 1/200 kit to depict the journey to the launch point, but it would seem a waste to put in the fully detailed hanger deck if it won't ever be seen.....

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:47 pm 
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Hornet students

The info below is not model related. Unless someone decides to do a diorama of the ship showing all damage inflicted at Santa Cruz. The info below might give you a better idea how and why so much was inflicted. By the way courtesy of Rick Davis I have unpublished photos of Santa Cruz to include a few of the ship that appear to have been taken after it was abandoned if there is anyone here with the skill to make such a diorama.

The paragraph below is copied from a post I put on a few days ago on the Juneau camo site. The sequence involved started on 12/7/16. On that site I also posted a copy of a memo written by the OIC of the 3rd Division on the Hornet which included my father and another member of a gun crew mentioned on the other site.

Hornet students if there are any here I also failed to mention a site that in part deals with Lt. Wells can be seen at http://carol_fus.tripod.com/navy_hero_alvin_grahn.html. I never met Alvin who I believe used to live in OR. I am pretty sure he is now deceased but am not positive. I did hear the same story from 3 other Hornet vets that I did meet in person at Mustin-Hornet reunions. None of those vets is still with us. As you can understand if you read the site I am not going to ID any of the vets who had the same story to tell. Suffice to say 2 are included in the Wells memo and the other had duties related to fire control. My memory is failing me but I think one of the Guadalcanal naval battles books published in the 80s or 90s also had a very brief as in maybe 1-2 sentence reference to it also, but I am not sure on that issue. Putting it in a book would be begging for a law suit so I might be hallucinating on that memory. I do not recall it mentioned in any after action report but have not looked at the one I have in a long while. I will be placing this info on the CV8 CASF site probably tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:51 am 
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i am a plane man, I know next to nothing about ships. Just finishing a 1/200 Yamato it has been brilliant fun. Rather than dropping back into aircraft I was considering doing the 1/200 merit hornet. I have been trying to find out the difference between CV8 and CV9/CV10 and the possibility of converting to one of these ships so I can keep a Yamato theme. I wondered what your views were, is it possible or are they so completely different ?? I'm not a brilliant modeller and I don't worry about being too accurate, for me the fun is in the build and if it passes for the real thing then I'm happy.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:00 am 
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npb748r wrote:
i am a plane man, I know next to nothing about ships. Just finishing a 1/200 Yamato it has been brilliant fun. Rather than dropping back into aircraft I was considering doing the 1/200 merit hornet. I have been trying to find out the difference between CV8 and CV9/CV10 and the possibility of converting to one of these ships so I can keep a Yamato theme. I wondered what your views were, is it possible or are they so completely different ?? I'm not a brilliant modeller and I don't worry about being too accurate, for me the fun is in the build and if it passes for the real thing then I'm happy.


Welcome to the dark side of modeling known as ships!

CV-8 is a Yorktown class. The other two ships in the class are CV-5 (Yorktown) and CV-6 (Enterprise). It is possible albeit a challenge to convert Hornet to one of her sisters. CV-7 MIGHT be possible as the Wasp was something of a watered down Yorktown to keep tonnage lower. Although it might be easier to drill a hole in one's own head.

CV-9 and 10 are both Essex class. Essex and Yorktown respectively. In my opinion to get it remotely close you would use maybe 10% of the kit and end up trashing the rest. Essex class was larger and generally looked completely different.

I hope that helps. If you want further info on going to either 5 or 6 from the Hornet kit there is a lot of info previously in the thread about what is actually different. I would suggest reading that first and then pluck away at us for questions. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:14 am 
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thanks Gabriel, much appreciated, I think I got confuddled as the same ship name appears in different classes. I'm not up building with only 10% of the original, the way I build it would come out looking like a monster ! I have also been looking for 1/200 aircraft and most seem to be early war so think I'll stick with building her as per the kit (but will look at some of the conversions that are possible).

As for the dark side, I think I'm marginally better at ship modelling than planes, I built my first kit in 1969 (good old airfix !) but I'm still middle of the road in terms of quality of output. As I said, the fun for me is in the build, as long as the outcome resembles the real thing then I'm happy. My eyes are up to super fine detail and my hands are built for 1:1 scale working !!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:46 pm 
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rcl111 wrote:
I'm presently working the same kit and have found the fit of the parts to be good even the hanger deck to the hull is a tight fit. Eduard makes pe for the kit and after market 20mm are available. I'm replacing the 20mm but staying with the kit pe for the time being.


The Eduard stuff just looks to replace the stock PE. I plan on using the stock 20mm as they look fine to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:41 am 
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Took a step back from ship modeling for about a year, but am back at it again.
Picking up where I left off in this discussion, I'd like to comment on a couple of developments in modeling HORNET in 1/350. I was talking about Model Monkey's HORNET island then, and I have bought the version with the catwalks separate so I cal apply both available P/E perforated metal catwalks, and perforated decking in front of pilothouse. This version is easier to clean up the residual lines from the 3D printing process. As Mike Vorassi says, the shape of the part - fidelity to the plans - is "righteous". I agree.
Since my earlier discussion regarding the wooden flight decks, it turns out I was correct that Pontos would not produce a deck for the Merit 1/350 CV-5 kit. But a new manufacturer - Infini - has done so. It is a great deck which can be modified to HNT's configuration with some work. In fact, they have a detail up kit that is really something. I have spent LOTS of time sctratchbuilding details - especially the support structures under the flight deck overhangs - that are done in P/E. They are really something - in both detail, effort to assemble, and cost. They have pretty much every detail you could want with one exception I noted.
I just found something interesting the other day which I shall pass along. I had a look at the Infini detail up set for the Merit ENTERPRISE photos. I really didn't think it would be of much use to HORNET builders as it is the Late 1942 configuration. I think I was hasty in that assumption. I leave it to your discretion, but if I were to choose an Infini set to upgrade the Merit kit (probably either) I would choose the ENTERPRISE detail up set for HORNET. Although most of the two detail up sets are the same, there are some key differences worth noting. In the YKTN set, Infini uses the plastic gun tubs from the Merit kit for the light AA mounts. The ENT set uses P/E to produce scale thickness tubs and decks with the supporting bracing under the the groupings of the mounts. There is a six tub mount port amidships on ENT you will not use on HNT. Also, the #4 quad AA tub on ENT is lowered to the catwalk just below the flight deck to starboard just as for HNT. The other five 20MM mounts on that same catwalk appear to be identical in positioning to HNT. Almost as though they have ungraded ENT to near HORNET configuration.
Worth looking at these Infini products and Steve's island(s) to get a great model out of a good kit.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:45 am 
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Just curious, but has anyone checked to see if the hull from Trumpeter’s 1/700 CV-5 Yorktown can be used as a replacement for Hornet’s?

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