John W wrote:
Mike -
Received the MD Silver plans yesterday. Didn't see much really specific to HORNET there. But I was intrigued by the hull cross sectional view that showed a 5" AA gun mounted on the foc'sl deck on the bow and another on the stern at the main deck level. Hmmm.
Now back to my original post way above about the HORNET differences. Using the A.D. Baker III drawings in 'YORKTOWN Class Carriers' (Roger Pineau) for the three ships, I have concluded the following (correct me if I stray):
1. The island structure (except for some differences in some of the platforms around the bridge) is identical in length, height, width (the basic structure, not add-ons such as the searchlight platforms on the stack sides). Also, it is located in exactly the same place relative to the hull / flight deck on all three ships. Also excepted from this generalization is the distinct shape of HORNET's bridge area and her different 5" directors.
2. The two pallisades are identical on all three ships with respect to size and location on the flight deck.
3. All four of HORNET's quad 1.1" mounts are in a different location when compared to the two sisters. Both mounts forward of the island are moved forward (Pineau's book says 13') and the #2 mount sits on a clipping room structure which is larger than that of the sisters and which also mounts a director not present on the sisters' clipping rooms. There is also a director at the flight deck level, forward of the number one 1.1" mount which is not present on the sisters. Aft of the island, at flight deck level, there is only one 1.1" mount, with the aftmost mount (#4) moved one deck lower and aft to the gallery deck.
4. HORNET's flight deck at the bow differs in shape resulting in a wider round down than the sisters.
5. All major structures on HORNET (hull, elevators, 5" gun galleries, hangar deck, flight deck (except as noted above), etc.) visible to the modeler are identical in size, shape, placement to the sisters.
6. Some catwalks differ between HORNET and the sisters, for example under the forward edge of the flight deck, and near the aft end of the flight deck (to include additional AA mounts and aft round down shape).
7. Gallery deck 20 MM AA guns are mounted further outboard (gallery deck is wider where guns are mounted), and number an placement is in general agreement among all three ships, though HORNET has some unique placements.
What else? I realize no two ships are ever identical even when new, but I'm trying to make sure I have a good list of the spotting differences as I move from the hull to the superstructure components. I have the FDD HORNET profile view, but it looks like an incomplete tracing job with some lines clearly incomplete or missing.
Comments appreciated.
Hi John,
Remember that most of Hornet's drawings are simply re-issues of CV5/6 plans, including her main hull and all the cross sections. Those 5 inch guns were deleted early on in CV5/6 development, but never removed from the plans. Important note, all of the plans in the Maryland Silver plan book are for Hornet as commissioned. By Feb 42, she had many changes from her original configuration. Who is Pinueau? Do you mean Chesneau? I do not have high regard for that book. Good for photos only. Many errors in the plans, especially CV6 late war. Most of his comments on Trumpeter's defects he got from reading my article from 2/2003 on this site. Otherwise he wouldn't have had a clue. He is not a Yorktown class expert, as revealed when he quoted 809 feet as the overall length instead of the correct 824.75 feet (827 with 20mm tubs on the aft ramp). The 809 foot figure applies only to the hull. And how about that relocated and downsized forward elevator on the late war CV6! Pure fiction. Check any overhead photo of Big E in 1945. There is a lot more in error, but why waste time?
1. Yes, island general structure was the same, with modifications for Hornet's pilot house and Mk 37 directors. Her tripod platforms were also the same as CV5/6 AS BUILT. CV5 & 6 had theirs built up further, while CV8 had her lower one trimmed down. Remember the curved face of the pilot house also dropped down to flag bridge level on Hornet, not so on CV5/6. Also, the pilot houses on all three extend well to port of the actual island side and overhang the structure, regardless of which of the three specific styles is involved, CV5/6 original, CV8 or late CV6. Hornet's pilot house is shaped like the loop on a woman's bobbi pin, with the looping part going out to port, when viewed from overhead. When CV6 got her "Hornet style" pilot house in 1943, it did not have this looping shape, but went straight back into her rebuilt pri-fly. CV8's forward stack had a closed in face, it was open on CV5/6. Several island platforms were modified by 2/42. Pri-fly was also completely redesigned and relocated compared to CV8's original configuration, neither of which was the same as her sisters. Hornet's pri-fly was slightly farther aft than her sisters, and this remained so when CV6 got hers rebuilt in 1943 as well. Also, the boxy structure under the island at flight deck edge was cut back in Hornet when the boat crane alongside the island was removed in January 1942. The area removed housed the crane machinery room. It was never cut back on her sisters. In fact Enterpise didn't loose this crane for some time into 1942, despite offloading all the boats stored there prewar.
2. Concur. I can't see any differences in the palisades of the three ships.
3. The forward 1.1's were moved forward compared to CV5 & 6, and CV8's fwd. clipping room was larger. There were modifications to the underlying flight deck edge structure in this area as well. Hornet was unique in that she alone had director controlled 1.1 quads. CV6 eventually got directors, but only when 40mm's replaced her 1.1's. The directors were located as follows, 1, just aft of the stbd fwd 20mm gallery- it looks like an additional 20mm tub, albeit sitting a bit higher. The #2 was in the cylindrical column just in front of the bridge, atop the clipping room. The number 3 was situated just behind the aft Mk 37 in a tub on the upper aft island platform and number 4 was just in front of the number four 1.1 quad tub in the catwalk aft of the island. The original location of the number three director was in a high column situated just in front and slightly inboard of the big crane. It was relocated to the adjacent island platform and the column deleted in Jan 42. Location of Hornet's #3 quad on the flight deck is the same as the #4 quad location on CV5 and 6, so one location is the same. Hornet's aft clipping room did away with the 1.1 at that location her sisters had, due to restricted arcs of fire. CV6 took up Hornet's 1.1 layout when her 40mm's were installed during post-Eastern Solomons repairs.
4, Hornet's widened forward flight deck is a major visual identifier, and completely missed by an amazing number of so-called reputable sources. (Usually the same ones who quote incorrect OA length figures!)
5. Yes, but details may differ, depending on which yard did it and when, such as rounded versus flat paneled splinter shields around the 5 inchers, etc. CV5 and 6 got rounded 5 inch shields. CV8, got flat panelled.
6. Hornet's catwalks conformed to the flight deck changes forward, but were otherwise fairly similar. Modifications to the aft catwalk were also done to Enterprise as she also gained one, and in her case, later two 20mm's on each aft corner of the flight deck ramp. Hornet had 2 small platforms on the catwalk that ran under her stern ramp to access the fold down flag staff mounted on her stern ramp. It swung down to the port side. You can see it in the stern drydock photos someone posted in this thread. CV5 and 6 had retractable flag staffs that moved down vertically, adjacent to the rear elevator pit.
7. Not a unique CV8 feature. All three ships had wider catwalks for the original 50 caliber batteries. The 20mm tubs were created by adding halfmoon extensions along the edges of the wider 50 Cal. locations. (See above referenced drydock photos, that was the yard period where they were being installed.) Note that Yorktown Enterprise and Hornet were all a fairly close match on the two port side five gun 20mm batteries, but not starboard. Enterprise and Hornet were a close match for 20mm's during the April though Midway timeframe, (the four aft of the aft 5 inch batteries excepted), but Hornet's 20 mm's forward starboard battery was arranged a bit different. She had, going aft from the stbd fwd 5 inch battery, an outrigger, then 5 20mm's then a 1.1 director tub. CV6 had 5 20mm's then an outrigger. Yorktown received only two 20mm tubs starboard, bracketing the hangar deck boat crane. Her stbd catwalk 50 cals were still in place at her loss. She did have 8 20mm along the starboard side of the island, as did Enterprise, while Hornet had only 4 until after Midway, when she upped to 8. At that time both she and Enterprise got a fifth 1.1 quad in an enlarged 20mm tub on the foc'sle. It was a manually aimed one, no director control. Hornet had a single 20 mm on each aft flight deck ramp corner, and also one behind the LSO platfrom in the port aft catwalk, and one directly opposite on the starboard side.
FDD's plans are the same plans as the Maryland Silver book, but the FDD guys tried to upgrade it to her 1942 configuration. They missed a few things though. Among the missed items: both aft ramp 20mm tubs, the portside aft 20mm tub behind the LSO platform and a mislocated one on the starboard side aft. It s/b further back.
Additional visual features, CV6 and CV8 both had the hangar deck catapult removed in July 1942, and the sponson that was formed by the collision guards for them were also removed. Hornet did not have her SC radar replaced by CXAM in July 1942. She had CXAM ADDED. The SC was relocated to the main mast aft of the stack. Her catwalks around the funnel top were removed in July 1942 as well.
HTH!