The Ship Model Forum

Don't think we haven't been trying

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Tracy -
I know, man. Thanks for what you do. Now I'm part of the problem. I have a relatively crappy copy in paper of a photo that would possibly answer some HORNET questions and I don't even know where I got it. Wish I'd done a glossy print at least. @#&^+*!!

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Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

Oh hey, if I had a dime for every time someone mentioned a photo and I said, "oh yeah, I saw one like that in the archives once ,but didn't scan it in.... "

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hi all,
My name is Corrado and I'm from Italy.
I'm currently working,with the help of this forum, on 1/700 Hornet (a mix of HP model, Trumpeter and scratchbuild lower hull).
I'm using the photoetch set from WEM for Tamiya Hornet/Enterprise; in this set are reported "5" gun sponson F/D safety nets"; but I don't have any faintest idea of their location and usage. I searched in several picures of the yorktown class, but i didn't found any clue.
Does someone has any information about those safety nets?
Regards
Corrado

Corrado -
Welcome aboard from someone who lived in Bella Napoli many years ago.
I cannot say I have ever seen the nets to which you refer fitted to HORNET, ENTERPRISE, or YORKTOWN in any photo. Not to say they were not fitted, but I haven't seen any picture of it. I have seen several photos of the 5" gun galleries that definitely do not show them fitted. All that said, their intended purpose was to keep a sailor on the flight deck from falling from the flight deck onto the 5" gun gallery deck below. The nets would be attached just below the flight deck (probably just a few inches below) and be horizontal, sticking outward over the 5" gun gallery deck.
I have attached a picture of a model of WASP showing nets fitted above her 5" gun gallery. I do not know if this model is accurate for WASP or not, but it does show the nets as they were intended to be fitted to give you an idea of how they probably would have looked if they were fitted to the YORKTOWN class. Again, I cannot say they were or were not fitted, only that I have never seen a picture of them so fitted.

Hope this answers your question.

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Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

For what it's worth, the nets would be angled up from their mounting point, so that anyone sliding into them would not roll or bounce out. I don't have any photos either, however. So, maybe mount them to the bottom edge of the flight deck part and angle them up so the far edge is level with the top edge of that same part?

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Does anyone know what color the hangar deck and walls were painted in the Hornet? I cannot seem to find any good references. Would the overheads had been painted white?
thanks in advance.

Bulkheads and overheads look to be white (Yorktown and Enterprise were probably silver early on, but Hornet lacks the same luster and odd quality in her photos):
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/b2 ... af798.html
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/b2 ... af798.html
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/06 ... 5d5aa.html

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hi John. hope you enjoied in Napoli.

Thanks for your answer about safety nets.
At the beginning I was thinking that these nets should be something similar to this photo about british ships http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_45-45_mk1.htm; but now wuith your explaination is clear to me. Now I will investigate about their real presence in Hornet.
Best regards

Corrado

Corrado -
I really enjoyed living in Bella Napoli and saw a lot of the country while there. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

I have looked at USN blueprints I have for HORNET, drawn in November, 1939, and they show "hinged life nets" in place over the forward and aft 5" gun galleries. Of course, this does not mean they were actually installed by the time the ship was completed. I have still not found any pictures of the nets in place, but the best bet would be in pictures of HORNET prior to commissioning (late 1941). Her configuration in those pictures is different than was her in-service configuration in early 1942 (many items removed prior to her departure for the Pacific). I will look at what I have to see if the nets show up, possibly in their folded-up position. Mike Vorassi or Dick J. often post here and may have some additional info I don't. Don't toss the P/E just yet . . . .

Update:
I have looked through all the pictures I have and do not see any definite indication of these nets on HORNET. In fairness, most pictures that show that area are at such an angle the nets wouldn't show anyway. I did find this picture of ENTERPRISE clearly showing the nets were not fitted when the picture was taken at sea, most likely in 1942 would be my guess.

You can see the nets could be a pain for both the gun crews (blocking some overhead vision) and in parking aircraft (if they were folded upward near vertical). The drawing shows them to be as wide as the catwalks, about 2 - 3 feet wide. I'd bet they were discarded very early if they ever made it on the ship in the first place.

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Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

Google's Time-Life archive has a few photos tagged "Battleship Hornet."
Might be because a lot of them are flipped.
However, I don't see any of those nets at the time of her commissioning. Of course, several of the 5" guns aren't installed yet either....

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Tracy -
I was looking through my photos to answer the question above when I realized I still had the unedited version of the photo I posted of the take-off of one of Doolittle's planes. It not only lacks my scribbles, it also has a print number in the lower right corner.

The photo number appears to be 93020 USAF. I Googled that info but came up dry. Maybe there are several more in the same series if we could find it. I kinow I got it online, but don't recall where. DS. But maybe not as much of a DS as I had thought.

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Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

My expertise is in Naval research - I have very, very little time in Army records and zero time in USAF records. That photo could be from one of the Air Force record groups, but I wouldn't know without more digging. I don't have the mental facilities for that tonight but will try and take a quick stab at it in the next few days.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Ok, I think that it clears definitively the discussion.
many thanks.
Corrado

No nets were installed around Hornet's 5 inch batteries in any photos I have. Here is a close up of the starboard forward battery from the series taken 28Feb42 at Norfolk. No netting is present. (This is a zoomed in cut. Same photo does show netting around the forward LSO platform, but that is all I can see.)

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Mike

Mike -
Thanks for getting the really easy stuff. Now who's that guy on the pier in your photo?

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Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

Nevermind that guy. I want to know who is the guy in the famous Yorktown drydock shot at PHNY taking a leak on the boxcar.

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Mike

Do ya blame him? Seeing all that water rushing out of the drydock, the recent cloudburst (so unusual in Hawai'i) . . . . I know, maybe it's the same guy as the Feb photo above. You can't rule it out because it's time / distance feasible - especially if he was attached to HORNET in Feb. Thanks Mike, you've answered the question.
OBTW, are you getting the 1/200 HORNET? I still see several accuracy issues with the hull and the island, but I'm betting many will say "close enough". I guess that's progress with all the flags you and others have raised to get those changes made that were made. Now, if only we could get NorthStar to make a figure of the guy whizzing on the boxcar in 1/200, we could make a terrific dio of the scene.

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Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

I think I'm going to pass on the 1/200 Esso Hornet. Aside from a bit of sharpening up of the bow (mind you, it is still incorrect) the rest of the hull is still the same mess, only bigger. If I am going to alter the house and furniture for anything this big, I think I'll scratch build a 1/144 scale and go whole hog. (What's an extra foot or two?) I already have a box full of 16 gorgeous little B-25B's plus spares (F-Toys/ aka Platz), half of which are already in Doolittle paint scheme, and a bunch of Wildcats (Sweet FM-2, but I can rework to F4F-4's), SBD's, and TBF's in 1/144. Just need TBD's. All the guns are available as fittings from Haynes in this scale. WTF. If I am going to have to rebuild it all, might as well do it fresh and correct. it would probably be faster than fixing goofs too.

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Mike

Exactly, and then when friends ask you if you built it, you won't have to say, "Well, it was a kit." and then have to listen to "You know, I used to build models when I was a kid..."

Paul

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