The Ship Model Forum

You can add Card to that list as well.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Mmm... interesting. Maybe ALL carriers I listed had 1.1" guns? In 1942 the escort carriers were rated as Auxiliary vessels, not combat vessels, so, perhaps, they had less priority in having the new Bofors.

Any other photo or document?

Max

I went through some of my photos; along with the report about the landing accident on Card there was a photo of her in January after wards. The forward starboard mount that the TBF wound up in has been replaced with a twin 40mm. She still doesn't have the second twin mount immediately behind this, but there's some evidence that they had some weapons by this time. I have some photos of CVE-13, but they were shot blurry (the captions the Navy added later were nice and crisp though ) and are of no help. Photos of CVEs 20 & 23, shot in April, show that not only did they have twin 20mms, they had their full complement of six guns. Along with the photos of Barnes were a couple of an unknown BCVE (labeled as Barnes but with British camo instead of Measure 22) which has fewer (only two shots of the ship, both port side), perhaps only four, with the second mount on the forward end missing. The date is listed as March 9, 1943, but as they didn't even have the ship correct I'm not going to trust that at all.

I don't have anything useful on this matter from the records of Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. These ships were built in a civilian yard south of PSNS and then went to the Navy yard for outfitting. It is very possible that they kept installing 1.1" guns on these ships past the point that they had twin 40mms for them in order to keep the production line smooth, which is something the Navy did a lot of with changes to any ship or class.

Unfortunately the records from PSNS that survived are logistical records about outfitting; some mention of pulling radar manuals for the BCVE ships, training for crew, etc. Nothing like a departure or completion report that might list work and equipment.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Came across some photos from NARA II I forgot I had.

ACV-9 on January 31, 1943 out of Portsmouth with twin 40mms. So she didn't have the 1.1" mounts for long.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thank you very much.
I found Bogue had 1.1" as well .

"Bogue set out on 11 December for Norfolk, Virginia, arriving on New Years Day. In and around Norfolk, she and her air group underwent training in anti-submarine operations, during which the Landing Signal Officer was killed when struck by a Wildcat. Also in Norfolk, Bogue's 5-inch 51-caliber weapons were exchanged for 5-inch 38-caliber guns, the 1.1-inch antiaircraft guns were traded for 40mm Bofors (and more sponsons were added), concrete ballast was added to improve stability, and her anti-fire systems were upgraded. Bogue then set out for Argentia, Newfoundland on 24 February, 1943, arriving on 28 February."


Maybe you have something more about Sangamon, Suwannee, Chenango or Santee. They were converted in the East coast, and not as an assembly-line product, so they could have had Bofors from the start.
When converted, they had two mounts on fantail and two on both sides of the fore flight deck (4 quad 1.1" or 4 twin Bofors).

Now I'd like to know if they were refitted in late 1942 after Torch and before the first three went to the South Pacific.
In other word, what was their AA outfit during the battle of Rennell Island?

Thank you in advance.
Max

Fitting out photos of Chenango show 1.1's.

I'm a west coast guy; I have virtually nothing on east coast ships or shipyard work.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Tracy, check the Squadron/Signal Escort Carriers book, pg 19. The 1.1's are quite clear.

Oh I know, I'm just answering about the other CVEs that didn't hit the west coast. I'm fortunate to a certain extent to be close to the yards where so many of them were built or fitted out, but there are definite gaps in what I've been able to see. Max has been asking me questions about radar fits as well that I haven't had any material to answer with.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thank you!
Anyway it seems that at least Santee was re-gunned with Bofors before operation Torch.
I found that photo:
Go to http://www.destroyerhistory.org/benson- ... ch457.html
then open the 1205 K Pdf near the description: "Stbd. bow, approaching Santee (CVE-29), Nov. 1942"

I guess that all four sisters were modified before Torch, having 4 twin Bofors.



Indeed that photo is quite clear. I must have had look at her before.
Looking at following photo, if the captions are correct, it seems that they were not upgraded to 8 twin Bofors before going to South Pacific.
The upper photo at page 18, show Suwannee with a big "7" on FD. She has only 4 positions for twin Bofors, but she had a bigger number of 20mm:
on port side: 9+3+2/3
on starboard side: 5/9+3+0/2
counting 2 on the bow, the total is between 24 and 30 x 20mm Oerlikon.

The upper photo at page 20 show Chenango "during early 1943, soon after being deployed in the Pacific for the invasion of the Gilbert Island".
The latter part of the phrase is not correct. Anyway, in this photo, Chenango doesn't have a sponson for Bofors on the aft side of the Flight deck, and it seems she has only one in the fore side.

The summary seems to be:
Sangamons completed conversion with 4 quad 1.1".
Sometime before Torch they had 4 twin 40mm Bofors.
The three that were rushed to South Pacific had only an increased number of 20mm.
Maybe only Santee that was nearer to East Coast yards had 8 twin Bofors (??).
The three Pacific units were upgraded before Gilberts in sept-oct 1943 with 7 twin and 2 quad (aft) 40mm Bofors.
More upgrades in 1945 (10 twin and 2 quad).

Bogue, Card and Core completed with 4 quad 1.1", but were very soon upgraded with 8 twin Bofors very early in 1943 or very late in 1942.

Copahee, Nassau and Altamaha were completed with 4 quad 1.1" as well.
All three were upgraded to 8 twin Bofors in May, August and November 1943 respectively.

CVE-20 to 25 (From Barnes on) they were completed with 8 twin Bofors.

Some or all of the Bogues were upgraded to 9 or 10 twin Bofors from 1944.

Of course all comments and corrections are welcome.

Max

The CVE-55 USS Casablanca class was the:

* most numerous class of aircraft carriers ever built (50 ships)
* fastest-built class of "capital ships," ever
* had some immortal momets of fame
* are just plain interesting ships
* there is an excellent new kit in 1/350 of Gambier Bay

Anchors aweigh, let us give the CVE-55 USS Casablanca class some well-deserved "personal attention."

I am currently building the Hasegawa 1/350 Gambier Bay and would like to pose one of the elevators in the down position. I have no clue what the elevator pit bkhd's looked like but thankfully Tracy provided a paint scheme for that area. Would anyone have a picture of this area that they could direct me to or describe the area for scratchbuilding? Thanks

Frank Ren

Go download the "CVE-90, USS Thetis Bay" plans from The Historic Naval Ships Association site to get a general idea of shape.

I'd also suggest looking at Bill Waldorf's 1/72nd scale Gambier Bay CVE-73 build, otherwise do a google search for ships names and "elevator;" I found a photo of St. Lo's elevator here that way (photo 10).

Photo six, "Bomb stowage" is aft; compare the layout of the hatches, etc., to the plans mentioned above)

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I have some nice shots of the forward elevator pit showing many of its details. I will try to find it once back at home. In the worst case I will scan them (I have printed them some time back luckily). These photos and plans mentioned by Tracy fits very well. Regarding the aft elevator pit, it is like a black hole for me. I have found no single piece of photograpy showing this area.

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God created Arrakis to train the faithful.

Hi all , does anyone have any info on when the White Ensign etch is coming out for the Casablancas ? , I keep looking and wondering ....

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"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name... Enterprise"

Have you asked John directly?

My guess is that they're waiting for a critical mass of pre-orders.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hi all, one question.

Did the USS Bogue had white stripes on the deck during the '45, when she was wearing the measure 32D 4A?

I don't have any photos, but have a hard time imagining a carrier that small would not have any sort of deck markings.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hi,

I am currently building two Tamiya Bogue kits, one as the Bogue herself and the other as HMS Fencer. Could not find an answer for a specific item, the small cranes on both sides of the rear part of the flight deck. Were they in place all the time, even during flight operations? If not, were they stored inside or outside the ship?

Any information you may have on this will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Paulo Roberto

Time to drag this one back up.
Now, the question comes again. Did anybody every find good plans of the Bogue? I see it was the original question quite a few years ago, it popped up again afterwards, but was never answered...
Is the Bogue really built on a Victory C3 hull? I saw some nice drawings of Bogue class in Tracy's link, with the HMS Battler and HMS Puncher as good examples. It seems that Puncher's plans are more detailed/extensive, but it only contains a couple of frames, not enough for a larger scale build!

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The merchant shipyard