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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:16 pm 
I Have come to the conclusion that we need a topic dealing with the Wasp. She was singleton and generally under represented. A light carrier version of the Yorktowns.
We Have two models of her. The Corsair Armada and the GHQ.

Corsair Armada
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

GHQ
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Kitbashes/Scratchbuilds
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:38 pm 
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Hmmm - we HAD a CASF Wasp thread. I recently posted some pictures in it. Don't seem to see it anymore, however...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:00 pm 
Why did the Wasp have an asymetrical hull? Was this to save weight, act as a counterbalance to the island or something else?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:50 pm 
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Guest wrote:
Why did the Wasp have an asymetrical hull? Was this to save weight, act as a counterbalance to the island or something else?


Below the waterline, the hull was symmetrical. But the previous 5 carriers, the ones with island structures (Lex, Sara, Ranger, Yorktown, and Enterprise) were not designed to structurally counterbalance the weight of those islands. That had to be done using asymmetric fuel loading, which meant that the usable fuel was greatly reduced. (Certain loaded tanks to port needed to remain loaded, and the corresponding tanks to starboard needed to remain empty.) So the Wasp, in order to maximize the use of all internal space, extended the hull above the waterline to port, and positioned some of the internal equipment more toward the port side. As a result, Wasp was structurally balanced and all of the limited internal fuel space could be used.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:19 am 
Very interesting. Thank you


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:28 am 
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Here is a link to Wasp's plan book ((caution, large pdf.) and you can see the way the port side is bulged outward widely above the waterline to counterbalance the island structure. http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cv7.pdf It is particularly noticeable on pages 11and 12 when comparing the hull lines running forward from the fantail.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:07 pm 
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An interesting bit of "speculative" trivia on this balancing act concerns the port-quarter gun tub that was added shortly before her loss. There have been many questions about whether a quad 40MM had actually been installed there before she was sunk. The best information I can find says no. (A photo taken at NAS North Island just before she sailed directly to the South Pacific shows the tub empty. No further yard visits means probably no mounting.) But consider this possible reason for where the new tub was located and why it was left empty. Since the ship was balanced "as-is", and a quad 40MM was about twice the weight of a quad 1.1, the two quad 40MM positions before the island would replace all 4 of the 1.1's weight-wise, leaving the ship balanced with just those two. If the after two quads were mounted on opposite sides of the ship, again the ship would remain balanced. Therefore, the tub would probably not have been occupied until all 4 quads could be installed, and the ship kept in balance. However, I haven't seen any documentation to verify this, so it remains speculative.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:35 pm 
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Hi Dick. Interesting mystery, this 40mm tub. It shows up on the usually excellent Webb Warship plans, but I have yet to even see the photo of the illusory 40mm empty tub, so this is purely speculative. There are some mitigating factors in Wasp's balancing act. Her design did not contemplate the CXAM-1 radar or the FD radar added to her 5" directors, and she had a lot of 20mm's on her starboard side (including a couple on the island signal bridge), I think more than on her port side, where her forward elevator ate up lots of catwalk space. Additionally, much splinter shielding was added around the bridgework and around the four 1.1" mounts fore and aft of the island. Additionally, she upgraded to director controlled 1.1" mounts which added both more mount weight and the directors and their tubs as well. This all adds up to lots of new weight on the starboard side that needed counterbalance. It is possible that she had enough weight added to starboard to offset the single quad 40mm. I think her trim tanks should have been able to handle any remaining minor balance issues.

The model on display at Pensacola has a 1.1" quad in this port-side tub with a director just forward of it (but no directors for the 1.1" quads around the island). Then again, it has a brown deck, lacks any of the added splinter shielding around the island, the 5 inch guns, or the 20mm's, despite otherwise "sort of correct" Measure 12M colors. and post-Midway aircraft mix, including TBF's on deck. I wonder where the builder got his info, since the model looks to have been made from as-built plans with minimal wartime features, these being incorrectly rendered for the most part.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:56 pm 
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Mike,

I have photos of the tub from below (which I think I got from Floating Drydock) and above (the San Diego shot taken from "The Hook" magazine). I also have a few photos of the deck-edge elevator in operation. I'll send the tub photos tonight, when I get home.

I think that the 1.1" gun tubs on the starboard side would have only needed the splinter shields enlarged to take the quad 40MM. (With one tub eliminated) So, adding the tub to port when they did may have offset some of the other weight you mentioned. Not only would they be a step ahead for the 40MM upgrade, the empty tub itself and the supporting structure would have been of value for maintaining the balance. The after hangar cat had already been removed prior to the Malta runs, but it would have been rendered unusable by the port-side tub anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:47 pm 
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Does anyone have information on where USS Wasp had her 24 x 50 cals situated Pre war. i want to build her in her first configuration.

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John

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:21 pm 
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Flood Error

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Last edited by Seasick on Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:39 pm 
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This has been a hot topic on some other boards. Wasp had a quick refit before heading to the Pacific. There has been suspicion that some of the quad 1.1" guns were replaced with twin 40mm Bofors. The gun was in short supply but Wasp was a CV so she got priority for AA guns.

The Wasp was a late attempt to conform to International Treties. By time she was finished the treaties were dead. The USN was working on the Essex design but the Hornet was ordered in the meantime. Wasp was sort of a Yorktown lite.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:11 am 
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Seasick wrote:
This has been a hot topic on some other boards. Wasp had a quick refit before heading to the Pacific. There has been suspicion that some of the quad 1.1" guns were replaced with twin 40mm Bofors. The gun was in short supply but Wasp was a CV so she got priority for AA guns.


Where in the world did this come from?? This post is the first I have even heard it speculated (other than the quad 40MM to port), and I am fairly sure that Wasp had NO 40MM. The June 28, '42 photo of her in San Diego clearly shows that the original 4 1.1's were still in place, and the port-side tub (added during that "quick refit") was empty. Wasp headed directly to the South Pacific from San Diego. I don't think she even stopped at Pearl on the way.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:51 am 
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I am happy with numbers and positions of all weapons Pre War with the exception of the 24 x .50 Cals. I intend backdating my Corsair Armada 1/700 USS Wasp to her Pre War Yellow Wingy fit.

I cannot determine from photographs of her early days as to the definate positions, also not sure as to the date that the Pensacola model depicts her in, but i seem to make out 8 weapons on the island, so maybe a modified Yorktown layout with 4 groups of 4 .50 Cals around the flightdeck, but staggered unlike Yorktowns Symetrical layout.

Any thoughts welcome,

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John

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:02 am 
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kidcurrie42 wrote:
I cannot determine from photographs of her early days as to the definate positions, also not sure as to the date that the Pensacola model depicts her in, but i seem to make out 8 weapons on the island, so maybe a modified Yorktown layout with 4 groups of 4 .50 Cals around the flightdeck, but staggered unlike Yorktowns Symetrical layout.

Any thoughts welcome,


Looking at my photos I would say you got it as close as I can tell.
Dick J wrote:
Where in the world did this come from?? This post is the first I have even heard it speculated (other than the quad 40MM to port), and I am fairly sure that Wasp had NO 40MM. The June 28, '42 photo of her in San Diego clearly shows that the original 4 1.1's were still in place, and the port-side tub (added during that "quick refit") was empty. Wasp headed directly to the South Pacific from San Diego. I don't think she even stopped at Pearl on the way.


This question has been bothering me for quite sometime, after much research I have come into possession of a series of 3 photos taken during the Wasp's death and they clearly show the tub as being empty.
Attachment:
wasp.jpg
wasp.jpg [ 97.51 KiB | Viewed 7975 times ]


Anyone interested in the rest of the series, please PM me and I will do my best to get them to you. I do not have a scanner so I have to take a picture of a picture but you still can make out the detail.

Matt

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:45 am 
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Finally got my scanner and a post over on he other forum prompted me to scan the other images and post them here. If you would like the larger images, just drop me a PM and I will be glad to share. I must say that was surprised to see that the tub still remained empty and that not even at least a 1.1 was installed in lieu of the 40MM, especially when the plans call for a 1.1 clipping room to be right behind the tub. Maybe there just weren't any of those available either when she had to deploy.

Matt


Attachments:
wasptriosmall.jpg
wasptriosmall.jpg [ 147.75 KiB | Viewed 7659 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:05 pm 
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Fantastic never seen images to me eyes at least. :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

Thank you for sharing them with us Matt. :cool_2:




Bob Pink. :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:16 pm 
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Here is another image that I have never seen anywhere else before that I thought I might share. It shows the same part of the ship before the tub was installed, the date on the photo says April of 42'.
Attachment:
waspbritarchsm.jpg
waspbritarchsm.jpg [ 143.98 KiB | Viewed 7486 times ]


This one is from the British Archives.

Matt

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:59 pm 
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Great stuff Matt. Thanks for posting these.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:55 pm 
Thanks Matt! Sadly, there is not enough info on Wasp out there, and your photos help. I always wondered if Wasp had not been sunk Sept. 1942, what would her future role be? Would she have been classified as a CVL and carried on, or would she have been like Ranger, and been serving in a ancillary role? Anyway.....great photos!

Jerry Phillips


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