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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:23 am 
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No rush Tracy, the parts are still bagged :thumbs_up_1: I always appreciate your well researched insights.

Here's the patch I'm talking about:

http://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-conte ... e_1942.jpg

Now that's a June photo and she looks freshly painted. There's a panel on the bow flare that contrasts with both the other camouflage colours and looks deliberately painted, almost as if to give the illusion of a reverse rake on the bow. I'm curious if this is 5H and if it was added in the Pacific or if it was already there in the Med.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 6:22 am 
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Tracy White wrote:
Vlad wrote:
I ask because some pictures have a light patch at the bow (possibly in 5-H Haze Grey) while others don't.


I don't have the time to do the full research on this tonight, but I will say it is more likely the light patch is primer showing through chipped paint. Does the light patch look like it would follow heavy action from waves?



Wasp had her camo revised. The photos taken after her last yard period in Norfolk show it freshly painted. The patches added on the bow and stern were 5-H Haze Gray. She got this revised pattern somewhere between April and May 1942. Shot in April shows no 5-H patches, shot in May shows it in place.

Navsource April 42:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020726.jpg


Navsource May 42:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020702.jpg


Navsource bow June 42:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020720.jpg
Navsource stern June 42:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020720a.jpg

Link to Higher rez edition of bow shot, too big to post.
http://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-conte ... e_1942.jpg

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 9:18 am 
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Thanks Mike,

That narrows it down to her arriving in the UK with the original pattern and leaving revised. Between those first two photos she went to the Med twice, I guess it's just speculation as to whether she had the revised scheme on either of those trips? There is a picture of HMS Eagle taken from USS Wasp on the second run but I haven't seen any the other way around.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:44 am 
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Vlad - have you checked the Imperial War Museum site? I find it handy for times when US ships were based or joint operating around English waters.
I found a couple of hits searching for "USS Wasp:"
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205143316
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205143322
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205143103

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 3:05 am 
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Thanks Tracy! In the past I've found the IMW website a real pain to navigate and search but they seem to have improved it. I wasn't able to find more than you but I'll keep looking.

To backtrack a bit, is the darkest colour in the pattern (the waves on the hull) in 5-S or was it repainted to 5-N?

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 7:15 am 
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Vlad wrote:
Thanks Tracy! In the past I've found the IMW website a real pain to navigate and search but they seem to have improved it. I wasn't able to find more than you but I'll keep looking.

To backtrack a bit, is the darkest colour in the pattern (the waves on the hull) in 5-S or was it repainted to 5-N?

Always a tough call, but based on the darker tone in photos, and the time period, 5-N would be my choice. The Atlantic fleet had switched over to 5-N by the time Wasp switched from original Measure 12 to Measure 12 Modified.

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:41 am 
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Michael Vorrasi wrote:
Vlad wrote:
Thanks Tracy! In the past I've found the IMW website a real pain to navigate and search but they seem to have improved it. I wasn't able to find more than you but I'll keep looking.

To backtrack a bit, is the darkest colour in the pattern (the waves on the hull) in 5-S or was it repainted to 5-N?

Always a tough call, but based on the darker tone in photos, and the time period, 5-N would be my choice. The Atlantic fleet had switched over to 5-N by the time Wasp switched from original Measure 12 to Measure 12 Modified.


Thanks, this was my hunch and line of thought as well, was fishing for supporting arguments. :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:33 pm 
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If you want some official documentation to back it up a bit, Measure 12 Modified was ordered for the Atlantic Fleet in Early November the preceding year.

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 1:21 pm 
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Tracy White wrote:
If you want some official documentation to back it up a bit, Measure 12 Modified was ordered for the Atlantic Fleet in Early November the preceding year.


Thank you! But I thought it best to check, since as it says on the camouflage main page on your website: "5-S continued in use in an inconsistant pattern through 1942."

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 1:29 pm 
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Yes, that's why I didn't use the phrase "unequivocal proof." :big_grin:

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 4:55 pm 
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Tracy White wrote:
If you want some official documentation to back it up a bit, Measure 12 Modified was ordered for the Atlantic Fleet in Early November the preceding year.

Great find Tracy. If you note the instructions in paragraph 3b, regarding the dividing line along the hull, Ranger, Wasp, and Hornet, all moving from original Measure 12, seem to have followed those instructions very precisely (especially Ranger and Hornet.). If you look at Hornet's hull wavy pattern, you can see the upwards lobes of 5-N above the original line and the downward lobes of 5-O below the original line. In some areas, like the bow, sections of original line still remained. Later editions of ships moving into Measure 12 Modified seem to simply be using alternating 5-N and 5-O disruptive patches on the hull, and drifting from the original graded intent. I have often wondered if we aren't misidentifying these and perhaps they were really Measure 15 (think Alabama). Perhaps people painting these patterns were not repainting from an original Measure 12 ship, and thus, the instructions were a bit nebulous without the obvious reference to the original graded hull line.

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:02 pm 
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I haven't found any documentation on Measure 15, but I believe it would have been limited to one ship for testing (The same was done with Measure 15 and 17 in that no more than one of each type is known to have worn those schemes).

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 11:34 am 
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[...]


Last edited by Charybdis on Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 6:42 pm 
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Got all my missing parts from Ted and Jon of ISW. Thank You! :thumbs_up_1: This the hardest resin kit I'm trying to build.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:29 pm 
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I wonder if Ray has a DVD on this ship?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:12 pm 
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Wasp Fans

I have been in touch with Maurice Beckner, a Juneau crewman kicked off just prior to its last mission for being overheard calling the First Lt. dumb when he stepped on a freshly painted deck, for several months. He has been of some significant help on a 1/350 model of Juneau which I hope to complete in the next week or so.

He recently told me he found the diary he kept on Juneau. Yes it was vs regs to do so. I asked him to send me a copy in the unlikely event it had any info on the camo on the ship. It did not. However it had some info I had never heard before about Wasp that may be of interest to you folks. And I quote----

"USS Wasp hit at 1440 by fish or 2 some seem. Our look outs never seen wakes of fish cause they were holding a field day--getting ready for Captains Inspection. Wasp sank later about 2130. One of our cans finished her off with a fish.
9/16 USS Wasp--no more--gone--but I reckon we will still have our inspection on schedule."

I have no idea how close Juneau was to Wasp and I seem to recall IJN fish did not leave wakes.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:42 pm 
While later in the war, an IJN 21" torpedo was developed using oxygen (like the Long Lance, with no visible wake), virtually all Japanese sub torpedoes are electric with wakes in 1942.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:36 pm 
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IIRC, the torpedo tracks where seen, as the Hornet group was alerted to them. Hornet narrowly escaped being hit by the greatest torpedo shoot in the history of undersea warfare, North Carolina wasn't so lucky. Nor was a US destroyer (Smith?) who's name escapes me at the moment.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:33 pm 
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O'Brien, DD-415. USS Smith was crashed by a Kate at Santa Cruz.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:49 am 
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Almost done with this build. Be glad also. :twitch:


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