The Ship Model Forum

Hi John - Dragon does not consider this a problem. Buy one for each!

I'll look into the book.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hello Jim, "outstanding work", most impressive. On a side note, you might want to check the Yorktown's M33-10a camo pattern and colors, especially the area of the forward 5" mounts. Keep up the good work!

Keith,

I may be making a BAD assumption, but I think your comments were directed at my page 1 ships....so

first thanks,

second re the Yorktown camo..yes I know..it was intentional.

I could not see the point of all the "fussy" multiple colors on the 5" twin houses and a number of other places. Looking at side surface area ratios, the hull is 300, the island is 28 and the individual 5" houses are 1 (for a total of 4). Multiple colors on 1/332 of the total area is absurd, it cannot add any practical improvement. Two of the four houses were given two colors because they were transition locations.

The hull in general has large areas of contrasting color, I kept that philosophy for the 5" houses, the 5" directors, and the island in general. The only heresy on the hull was the 5-N to 5-L transition in the area of the furthest aft of the 3 new quad 40mm's located below the island. I placed the transition right at the lower aft corner of the sponson rather in the middle of the mount so all was 5-N. I also made the forward mount 100% 5-O.

After all these years you were the first to call out my sins, all I can say is that a lot of non shipyard camo paint jobs deviated from the drawing..so i was following a precedent..and I think my design mods are better looking!!!

_________________
jim

aux viewtopic.php?f=59&t=40896

CV-3 viewtopic.php?t=39515&p=263120#p263120

CV-6 viewtopic.php?t=33201&p=201342#p201342

Sorry for the months-late response - I just read this post.
You are almost correct. The official compliment of aircraft was 24 F6Fs and 9 TBMs/TBFs. Keep in mind that operational losses and combat losses would reduce the count with replacements being flown aboard from time to time, and landings were made by pilots from other carriers for various reasons (low on fuel, etc.) so your model with any number in the original 24/9 ballpark could be technically accurate depending on what day/month/year. Models depicting her shakedown period (Atlantic) initially had a mix of F4Fs, TBMs and SBDs. On her first combat raid against Marcus Island, the mix was as above (24 F6F Hellcats and 9 TBMs/TBFs) and remained that way throughout the war. Where things get more interesting was the fine detail of the A/C after she reentered the war after the Hunters Point repairs in mid 1944, as a dedicated night carrier. Most (not all) CVGL(N)41 A/C had radar antenna pods on the starboard wings thru the rest of 1944 into early 1945, with the remainder of the war sporting day Hellcats/Avengers. A/C markings had minor changes throughout the war.

John G. Lambert

According to Bureau of Aeronautics reports, as of 3 october 44, CVLGN 41, aboard Independence, consisted of:
VF-41
3 x F6F-3
2 x F6F-5
14 x F6F-5N

VT-41
8 x TBM-1D

http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww ... -10-44.pdf

Which is also posted here for Independence's entire wartime career with camouflage and some marking information.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Kevin
If your firend's grandfather was on the CVL-22 please have your friend contact me.
Thank you.
John Lambert
CVL22history@conwaycorp.net

Keeping up with the numbers is difficult at best.
On 3 October 1944 USS Independence departed Ulithi and was engaged with a Typhoon. The number of serviceable A/C onboard was very much in a state of flux as they battled the heavy seas.
1 F6F-5N was lost over the side and two others damaged beyond repair. 1 F6F-5 was damaged beyond repair, to be jettisoned over the side on 11 October. 1 TBM-1C was damaged beyond repair. On 11 October 1 F6F-3N, 2 F6F-5Ns and 3 TBMs were jettisoned over the side, damaged in a landing accident.
On the 12th, 3 additional A/C were lost. Two other A/C would be lost thru the end of the month of October, 1944.

John G. Lambert

I have looked at all 13 pages of this thread in hopes of finding out what the color of the hangar deck should be on my 1943 Independence.

What color should the hangar deck be painted?

This picture on page three shows the lowered evelator and the hangar deck side by side with little contrast.



With the elevator being Flight Deck Stain 21, would 5O Ocean Gray be a suitable color to use for the hangar deck?

Tia

_________________
Gordon


"Then there was one patched-up carrier...."
Vice Admiral Thomas A. Kinkaid

Deck Gray #20 according to Chapter 5 of the June 1943 "Instructions for Painting and Cementing Vessels of the United States Navy. I'm not sure if this URL will work, but it's under "Finish of Compartments."

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hey guys, questions about SPS Dédalo specifically her flight deck, what did they use as a covering? Originally it was wood planked like all the other carriers and from the best I can tell so were the French pair and our pair that we refit for ASW work in the 1950's but when you look at the following photo, it looks like they might have changed it.

*I'd post a direct link to def imagery but their search engine is fubar for now?*

DN-SC-82-08574 1982


Close up


Did they just put non-skid on the deck leaving the tie-down strips uncovered or did they lay some sort of new covering?

Also, they operated Harriers off of her which would lead me to believe that they HAD to change the covering to prevent the exhaust from damaging the deck since its hotter than the surface of the sun. Anyone know any details of the Harrier ops? All my normal sources are turning up nada.

Any and all help is appreciated as always,
-Mike


PS. - Is there a ballpark on when the Classic Warships volume on the CVL-22s is due out?

_________________
Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

I'm late to the party as usual. I just stumbled across this site and this thread while looking for models of the Belleau Wood. My Father who passed on the 10th of this month at the age of 92, served on the "Bella" from July 1943 until December 44 when he was transfered off at San Fransisco and sent down to Wattsonville, Ca. He was a chute rigger, ship's company. Anyway, Some years ago I bought the DML 1/700 Princeton model and made it the Belleau Wood and gave it to my Father. I just got it back. It's in pretty beat up shape now so I have ordered the Gold Medal Models PE kit and I'm going to do my best to Resurrect it. I also just bought the DML 1/350 Princeton kit. Now that I spent the money I'm sure they'll bring out a proper CVL 24 just like they did in 1/700. Oh well! I hope to show my progress with the old model as soon as I get the GMM parts. Thanks, and it's good to be aboard!
Kelly

Sorry to hear of your Dad's passing Kelly. You can build with confidence, no Belleau Wood is in the works at this time.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy. You seem to have a lot of knowledge on the CVL's so I'm sure I'll have some questions soon. I haven't done plastic models in a long time. I run a model train store and have a large model railroad that takes up most of my modeling time but this looks like a nice diversion.

Very nice! I helped Dragon with the kits and have a pretty good idea of the different details to do each ship. The Princeton kit is a good start in 1/350th. I have a good friend whose Dad was also on the Belleau Wood....

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Guys, as stated above, I want to make the DML 1/350 Princeton into the Belleau Wood in October '44 in the Leyte Gulf. The model has one catapult on the deck. On page 43 of "Flight Quarter" it shows the Belleau Wood in the Ms.33/3D scheme which she received in August '44. but there is no "blister on the port bow. This would indicate one "cat", right? Are there any obvious changes to be made to the Princeton model to make it the Belleau Wood? I know several others here have already done the conversionl so any bone you can throw me would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Kelly

Click on the thumbnail for a larger preview and then again for the full size shot; very large and high-res.

October 1944 - Should help with the Avengers' Markings.
http://collections.naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/pages/doncoms/Display.php?irn=29345&QueryPage=%2Femuwebdoncoms%2Fpages%2Fdoncoms%2FAdvQuery.php

February 1944 - Just neat; color shot of her gunners bagging a G4M.
http://collections.naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/pages/doncoms/Display.php?irn=35955&QueryPage=%2Femuwebdoncoms%2Fpages%2Fdoncoms%2FAdvQuery.php

October 1944 - Just neat; CV-6 20mm gunners look for enemy aircraft while CV-13 and CVL-24 burn from Kamikaze hits in the background.
http://collections.naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/pages/doncoms/Display.php?irn=41264&QueryPage=%2Femuwebdoncoms%2Fpages%2Fdoncoms%2FAdvQuery.php

Found the shots at the USN's Aviation Museum website: http://collections.naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/pages/doncoms/AdvQuery.php

They have more shots of her but the time frames don't match up for what you want. Some of them might help with details though. Search for "CVL-24" and you'll get more results than with her name alone.

Can't help you with the kit specifics though but Tracy should be able too it sounds like.

Good luck and please post photos of your build as you go

-Mike

_________________
Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

She received the second cat during repair & overhaul at Hunters Point in December 1944 to January of 1945. You're free & clear!

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I've seen most of those photos many times. The one of the B.W and Big Ben burning has always fascinated me. According to my Father, he was standing right under the burning fantail in that shot. He was a chute rigger but during battle stations he stood by a fire hose behind the 40mm gun tub on the Stearn. He said when the plane hit all hell broke loose and some of the gun crew flooded the magazines and jumped overboard. My Dad and several other sailors debated going over the side but burning aviation fuel was raining down like a curtain. They opted to to ride it out for awhile and see what happened. The fire crews got things knocked down pretty quick and they made their way topside forward via the catwalks down the side of the ship. He saw some grizzly stuff on the way. He told me that story once in fifty years and never really talked about it again. The stories of drunken silliness or riggers making money as a the ship's Taylors I've heard plenty of times. I'm going to start rebuilding a couple of dilapidated 1/700 CVL 24's first and then get on the big one. Pics to follow soon.
Thanks

Hi Guys !

Here is a request. I am trying to determine what radar antenna this is.................



It was installed during CVL-22's repair/refit at Hunters Point, April-June 1944.

I read through all 13 pages in this thread and the only mention was from Tracy White stating that he was not sure at that time what it was. I believe that it was unique to CVL-22.

Thanks for any help,
Steve Wiper