John W. wrote:
lvsquarerigger wrote:
So we are still left with nothing definitive but it seems the guesses and lucky pics here and there are what we have to live with. Still, it's more than what we had before so there is some progress even if it's only a little.
James
James -
Not sure what you mean by "nothing definitive" or little progress. I have seen several pictures that I think it is reasonable to say do confirm what the PHNY changes were - and that they are as documented in the drawing Steve Wiper published in WP-33. I have made my case about the drawing's authenticity elsewhere above, as has Steve Wiper. Even though we don't have the whole ship in pristine shape, those photo glimpses confirm what the drawing says. I saw no contradictions for that matter where something in a photo was different than the drawing. Therefore I think it is reasonable to infer that the other changes documented in the drawing were done as the drawing documents - even on the parts of the ship we have not yet seen, and may not ever see due to the massive destruction. The Flag Plot changes show up as partially complete in the PHNY photo posted a ways back with the barges in the foreground. In the same photo, the upper forward pair of twin 1.1" mounts show them arranged fore and aft as in the drawing, though not the shape of the forward end of the bulwark. Seeing the bulwarks for the after three 1.1" mounts certainly makes the case pretty strongly the shape (rounded end) is the same on the forward two pairs even without a photo (yet). Why would it be different? The picture of the bulwark on the 1.1" mount just aft of the stack has the same unique teardrop shape as the drawing does. How many bulwarks shaped like that have you seen? Not many I'd bet. Back to the Flag Plot changes, they are documented (including the rangefinder location on top) in the drawing. Finally, most of one of the 20MM swing-up platforms placed in some boat pockets shows in the ninth picture from the top above. And one key detail in the drawing and further clarified on page 70 of WP-33 is that the platforms are sectional, not one continuous unit. Each gun mount and splinter shield swings upward separately - probably due to the weight (each 20MM mount itself weighs ~1600 Lbs). The picture shows the platform is indeed split between each pair of 20MM mounts.
We may have gotten the most info we will ever get, but I think it brings us really close.
One thing I have wondered for some time is where did the idea of the 1.1" "cattle pens" shape come from. I have never seen a photo that clearly confirms the rectangular shape, nor any drawing. I think I know that answer based on a conversation I had by e-mail last week with someone I thought would know for sure. That answer was that there was no documentation upon which that shape was based. It was just an assumption - as many have made including me - that the quickest way to do the job was to use flat plates in a rectangular shape.
Tracy (not the person I e-mailed) has posted correspondence that shows the Yard had at least a week to ten days to work before LEX's arrival and they fabricated as much as possible in advance of the ship's actual arrival to expedite the work when she did arrive. (That's the Navy way.) The grease pen / paint markings which show in the pictures above on some of the newly installed components, are like the part numbers on a plastic model sprue to identify a specific part so that assembly would be as quick as possible. With plenty of lead time, the actual shape could be more like then-current USN standards (don''t the rounded bulwarks just look right?) rather than Civil War-era Gunboat iron plate chic.
Honestly, I think we have really got a lot of the puzzle filled in. Opposing points of view respected, but please make them with data.
Hi John. By definitive I meant a clear photo of any specific item under discussion. It seems it's always off in the background,the pic at Pearl behind the barge, the battle shots obscured by smoke or at the wrong angle to show the detail we want. For instance the flag deck extension in the pic behind the barge is a framework but not filled in. In the photo of her steaming after the first torpedo attack the flag bridge is not clear as to whether it's open or closed at the front but the FC radar is clearly visible.
As to the fold up 20mm platforms I used that same detail to make my pockets mount above the deck instead of flush but did not really see that they were separate sections. When I looked at it again the delineation is there along with that obvious word platforms at the bottom. So I agree we do have much evidence of what was done but in some areas not concrete. It suits me but I'm anal by nature and just picky.