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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:34 am 
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Fitting out, I think.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:59 am 
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Hmm, you mean she had painted/stained deck since built?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:29 am 
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Hmm, had some time looking around, looks like what I held for bare wood, was mahogany stain...

In fact, I like this picture alot, Oct. 41
https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collec ... 16362.html
Absolutely nicely weathered ;)

Looks like she is in MS1 Camo, with MS5 False Bow Wave. Am I right that she is dark grey 5-D overall, with mahogany deck stain, and 5-L bow wave and mast top?

What modifications from the MENG kit would be needed to represent her as in this photo?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:03 pm 
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PetrOS wrote:
Looks like she is in MS1 Camo, with MS5 False Bow Wave. Am I right that she is dark grey 5-D overall, with mahogany deck stain, and 5-L bow wave and mast top?


Just Measure 5. Measure 5 was Measure 1 with the false bow wave.

5D overall, 1941 5L for mast above the stack and for the radar. White for the bow wave. The flight deck was stained blue by this time. Deck stripes were 5O.

There is color footage (I think in the First Flattops DVD?) of Lex conducting air ops around this time and you can see she had a blue deck and "LEX" was still painted in front of the stern ramp.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Interesting! If to trust the Warships Pictorial 33, then the Lex deck was made blue only late october 1941. This particular photo is suggested to be likely misdated, and taken one month later, in November. Another photo, on page 22 and a color motion picture screenshot on back cover dated from early october 41 definitely show brown deck with yellow stripes and LEX on the rear....

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:00 pm 
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I always have a hard time finding this link, because I think it's on this site and it's not. Hopefully it will help you out. It has a picture from that color film clip I mentioned before:

http://shipcamouflage.com/specialtopics/BlueFlightDecks.html

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Sometime in late 1941, Lexington was repainted from Ms 5 (as seen in the photo you posted) into Ms 12. She carried Ms 12 (unmodified - no splotches) until her last stint in the yard in late March. Since the Pacific Fleet gave up on Sea Blue relatively early, she may have been 5O and 5N, instead of 5O and 5S. Wiper's Lex book has a photo of her in this camouflage scheme, but it's dated incorrectly.

During this last yard period, her 8 inch gun mounts were removed, additional 1.1 AA guns were added, her flag bridge was enclosed and she was repainted overall Navy Blue. If she hadn't gotten sunk, she would have been modified in the same way Saratoga was.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Ok! I would then probably assume, that in Ms 5 she had a Mahogany deck at least for some time, and with 1.1 inchers on 4 stations, it would place her between august and early October 41, if I am not mixing things up.
MENG kit seems to give her deck edge correct for this fit, if I can believe the general plans booklet for comparison, less 3" guns replaced by 1.1s... Any issues known with the kit mixing thing up?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:37 am 
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PetrOs wrote:
Ok! I would then probably assume, that in Ms 5 she had a Mahogany deck at least for some time, and with 1.1 inchers on 4 stations, it would place her between august and early October 41, if I am not mixing things up.
MENG kit seems to give her deck edge correct for this fit, if I can believe the general plans booklet for comparison, less 3" guns replaced by 1.1s... Any issues known with the kit mixing thing up?

I wouldn't make that assumption about the deck staying mahogany, but anything is possible. Plus, it's your model, if you want her in Ms5 with a mahogany deck, then build her that way. And I don't mean that comment in a snarky way...but reading it, it comes off that way! :eyes_spinning:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:18 am 
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Martin J Quinn wrote:
Plus, it's your model, if you want her in Ms5 with a mahogany deck, then build her that way.


And one of us already did that, albeit by accident:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cv/cv-02/350-bc/bc-index.html

:oops: :oops: :oops:

Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Thanks! I will give it a try. As it will cover the August-October, the probability is high to meet the right config for this time...

And the model is great! Will definitely reference to it!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Just got a question - the booklet of general plans shows all her sponsons with railings around. The pictures from October 41 as she leaves the hunter's point shipyard in Warships pictorial 33, page 22, shows splinter shields at least around the 5" gun tubs. 1938 pictures show gun tubs with railings. So, can anyone tell, if my assumption is right, and the splinter shielding was added in october 41?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:01 pm 
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PetrOs wrote:
So, can anyone tell, if my assumption is right, and the splinter shielding was added in october 41?

Again, I wouldn't make that assumption. More likely she had the splinter shields added in the summer.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:08 pm 
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more likely august 1941 was when the 5" splinter shields installed as that was when she got 5 1.1" gun mounts. was in measure 12 during or after august 41. was in measure 1 with measure 5 false bow wave about oct 14 1941.
warship pictorial #11 Lexington class carriers page 16


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:02 pm 
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After a lot of picture analyse I came to suggestion, that the Lex had solid bulwarks on all 1.1 and 5" gun platforms, and the passageway from the rear 5" to 1.1 platforms has railings as in october 41.

Could anyone suggest what was exactly on the corner AA platforms except 1.1 guns? The plans from July show 0.50 MGs there, 2 on each platform. Were these still there, or were some directors, etc placed instead? The platforms also had a collapsible section in july, was it collapsible after 1.1 installation? Solid bulwarks would probably forbid that...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:34 pm 
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The folding portion of the platform was still there, it was just not anywhere as easily "foldable." You're just talking about a small line in 1/700th, so I wouldn't worry about it.

There wasn't much in the way of directors at that time, at least not like the Mk51s we're all familiar with.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:12 am 
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PetrOs wrote:
After a lot of picture analyse I came to suggestion, that the Lex had solid bulwarks on all 1.1 and 5" gun platforms, and the passageway from the rear 5" to 1.1 platforms has railings as in october 41.

Could anyone suggest what was exactly on the corner AA platforms except 1.1 guns? The plans from July show 0.50 MGs there, 2 on each platform. Were these still there, or were some directors, etc placed instead? The platforms also had a collapsible section in july, was it collapsible after 1.1 installation? Solid bulwarks would probably forbid that...

I do have a question about the collapsible section of the corner platforms. I have not seen any evidence that prior to the installation of the 3"/1.1" tubs that any portion of these platforms folded. Are you referring to the rounded extensions for the 1.1" tubs"

As far as I can make out, the 4 corner 1.1's were not actually installed on the original .50 cal mg platforms. Half of each platform was removed - the front half of the forward platforms and the after half of the after platforms. The 3"/1.1" platforms/tubs were then installed in their places. If you look closely, the deck areas beneath the 1.1" mounts were slightly lower than the adjacent .50 cal platforms. New supporting structure was installed beneath the new tubs. The after tubs had lattice type structures and the supports under the forward tubs were solid. I have not found any good photos showing the frontal aspect of the forward supports so I can't say exactly what the shape was. I do have photos of the after side of the starboard support. There was a rounded projection from the side of each of the 4 1.1" platforms and I presume this is the portion that folded up. The 5" mounts had similar folding extensions outboard of them. On the Yorktown class's 5" tubs, the folding projection portion could still be folded when the need arose because the solid splinter screens over the extensions were bolted on rather than welded. Presumably screens on the extensions of the corner platform tubs on Lexington were similarly bolted on as probably were the screens on the extending tubs for her 5" mounts.

As for what was mounted there, since half of each original .50 cal platform was removed, the guns on the removed sections were relocated atop the 8" gun turrets. That left 2 .50 cal mg's still in place on each corner platform at the time of her loss. The Pearl Harbor NY departure reports do not list added directors for any of the 1.1's during her March-April '42 refit. Pearl was pretty good about listing those directors if they installed any, so I would have to believe that none were on board Lex at the time of her loss. (So the Trumpy kit got that feature wrong - easily corrected.) Also, no mention is made of any equipment or guns installed to replace the corner .50's supporting the idea that those .50's were still there.

So when lost, the Lexington should have been carrying 20 .50 cal mg's; two on each corner platform and twelve on the funnel gallery. The photos indicate that 5", 1.1" and 20MM mounts had steel splinter screens. However, the .50's appear to have only been protected by splinter mats.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:24 am 
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Thanks!

Makes alot of sense!

One more question - which color would be the decking in the boat bays?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:56 am 
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PetrOs wrote:
which color would be the decking in the boat bays?


5-D according to the directives in place at the time she was painted. Updated instructions issued in September called for Deck Blue, but they weren't even sent out until the middle of October and it would have taken at least a week by mail to arrive at Pearl Harbor, before winding their way through the various offices. There is some controversy over the transition from 5-D to other colors but the October 1941 photo clearly shows the old paint *directives* in place with worn paint, so it's pretty safe to assume she had the old colors at least until she hit Pearl Harbor. After that point, I haven't been able to find anything.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:26 am 
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Dick J wrote:
PetrOs wrote:
That left 2 .50 cal mg's still in place on each corner platform at the time of her loss. The Pearl Harbor NY departure reports do not list added directors for any of the 1.1's during her March-April '42 refit. Pearl was pretty good about listing those directors if they installed any, so I would have to believe that none were on board Lex at the time of her loss. (So the Trumpy kit got that feature wrong - easily corrected.) Also, no mention is made of any equipment or guns installed to replace the corner .50's supporting the idea that those .50's were still there.

So when lost, the Lexington should have been carrying 20 .50 cal mg's; two on each corner platform and twelve on the funnel gallery. The photos indicate that 5", 1.1" and 20MM mounts had steel splinter screens. However, the .50's appear to have only been protected by splinter mats.


I concur!
The forward portside .50's are even visible in this pic (but better in Warship pictorial 33, p53):
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020237.jpg

The rear starboard .50's are visible in this photo, at least in the much larger version in Warship pictorial 33, p 57:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020223.jpg

You can also make out that there are railings on their platform, not splinter shields, with two splinter mats still attached. In earlier shots (taken only mere minutes earlier), the entire railing is covered by splinter mats, making it look like splinter shields. Hence trumpeter got that detail wrong, and so did I on my Lex. I also missed the level difference between the 1.1" and .50 platforms, which is also clearly visible in Warship pictorial 33, together with their support structures.
How the forward platforms looked exactly is much harder to make out.

Cheers,

Marijn


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