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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:36 am 
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Are you going to hit them with primer any time soon? Hard for me to really tell the way they are....

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:37 pm 
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Tracy White wrote:
Are you going to hit them with primer any time soon? Hard for me to really tell the way they are....


Tracy, it's not a close up, but you can see the ModelMonkey parts on my Lexington here: 1/700 Lexington 1941. They're much better than the Trumpeter parts.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:29 pm 
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Designs for 3D-printed USS Saratoga funnels, one for 1942-43 and another for 1944-45 are now available. Funnel designs for sistership Lexington are also available as well as various bridge towers. See:

viewtopic.php?f=16&p=692330#p692330

1942-1943 design:
Attachment:
File comment: 1942-1943 design.
Model Monkey 1-350 Saratoga 1942 funnel.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Saratoga 1942 funnel.jpg [ 24.89 KiB | Viewed 1034 times ]

1944-1945 design:
Attachment:
File comment: 1944-1945 design.
Model Monkey Wartime Saratoga Funnel.zd.png
Model Monkey Wartime Saratoga Funnel.zd.png [ 198.63 KiB | Viewed 1034 times ]

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1/350 USS Saratoga CV-3 ('44)
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1/192 USS Missouri BB-63 ('45)
1/350 HMS Duke of York ('45)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Some better photos of the MM 3D printed island and gun mounts. They have to be cleaned and cleaned up a little bit before I can prime them.
Attachment:
ModelMonkeyCV3Parts_001.JPG
ModelMonkeyCV3Parts_001.JPG [ 441.28 KiB | Viewed 1394 times ]

Attachment:
ModelMonkeyCV3Parts_002.JPG
ModelMonkeyCV3Parts_002.JPG [ 343.5 KiB | Viewed 1394 times ]

Attachment:
ModelMonkeyCV3Parts_003.JPG
ModelMonkeyCV3Parts_003.JPG [ 445.72 KiB | Viewed 1394 times ]

Attachment:
ModelMonkeyCV3Parts_004.JPG
ModelMonkeyCV3Parts_004.JPG [ 385.33 KiB | Viewed 1394 times ]

Attachment:
ModelMonkeyCV3Parts_005.JPG
ModelMonkeyCV3Parts_005.JPG [ 419.41 KiB | Viewed 1394 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:50 pm 
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This got me thinking....anyone have an idea of how to paint the bridge interiors on these 3D printed items?

(Or maybe just cover the windows with an opaque plastic or glass??)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:18 pm 
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I'd really like to see this stuff printed and primed before making up my mind.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:19 pm 
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Thanks, Martin!

Jim21680 wrote:
This got me thinking....anyone have an idea of how to paint the bridge interiors on these 3D printed items?

(Or maybe just cover the windows with an opaque plastic or glass??)

Great question! The bridge tower, like most MM superstructure designs, is largely hollow and open on the bottom. Airbrushing straight up into the model is one technique with which modelers have had success.

The hollowness of these designs helps accomplish three things:
1) makes it easier to paint the interior
2) keeps the cost down since the price is dependent on the amount of plastic extruded by the printer
3) and during printing, overhanging parts are supported by a waxy substance later melted away in a low-temperature oven. The openness permits the liquid wax to escape

A technique modelers are now using with success to help smooth Frosted Detail surfaces is to use an inexpensive tool called an "air eraser", which is similar to an airbrush (but much cheaper). It emits a grit to gently remove the frost and smooth the surface, kind of like sandblasting but much softer. The grit of choice is common household baking soda, safe and non-toxic. You can find several different air eraser models on Amazon. They cost about $30. They are messy so be careful where you use it.

See: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=161086&p=692922#p692919

Here's David Waples' experience:
davidwaples wrote:
Hi all,
Today I tried using the Harbor Tools air eraser with baking soda to clean up some of Steve's 1/700 parts. I had a defective printing in FUD of the Arizona bridge to play with. I found that it did a great job cleaning up areas that had that crystalized rough texture. There were some nasty areas under platforms around the support members and that cleaned up nicely. Best of all it smoothed out masts and barrels to the point where I didn't feel like i need to sand or replace these sections. Make no mistake though, if you work an area it will take plastic and not just the frosted area. In one area it really softened the molded in doors. I did not find that it returned any of the area I was working to a clear state. But overall the softening is pleasing and does not detract from the printing. Much better than I could have done with sand paper and it worked well in areas I couldn't get to. I suppose if you work an area long enough it could get ugly. But if you're careful the results are good. This was a good tip. Thank you.
Dave

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Catalog: https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey

On the ways:
1/350 USS Saratoga CV-3 ('44)
1/350 USS Yorktown CV-10 ('45)
1/192 USS Missouri BB-63 ('45)
1/350 HMS Duke of York ('45)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:00 pm 
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Having built both Trumpeter's USS Lexington and Tamiya's USS Saratoga, one glaring difference I noticed between the two is the height of the flight deck above the "waterline". The Lexington kit seems to be much "higher in the water" than the Saratoga kit. Now, I realize that I am comparing apples to oranges, but I am curious to know if Saratoga in 1945 actually rode lower in the water than Lexington in 1942?

Its the little things that keep me awake at night.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:50 pm 
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I've certainly noticed that ships tend to get heavier with age and additional modifications, so it's certainly possible.
I think with just about every model ship ever created, the proposed waterline is open to a great deal of variability. It's the nature of a ship.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:18 am 
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Jim21680 wrote:
I've certainly noticed that ships tend to get heavier with age and additional modifications....

Indeed! See the renderings below that capture some of the very significant changes to just the funnel from 1928 through 1945, some of these changes no doubt made to address weight, or adversely affecting weight.

Three different 3D-printed funnel designs for USS Saratoga CV-3 are now available depicting the funnel during three distinct periods with a fourth design coming. Link: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/Model_Monkey

Here are the designs with notes regarding major feature changes:

1928-1940 ("tall stack" as commissioned through the pre-war years):
Attachment:
Model Monkey 1-350 Saratoga 1928-1940 funnel.aa.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Saratoga 1928-1940 funnel.aa.jpg [ 31.08 KiB | Viewed 1114 times ]

1941-1942 ("tall stack" - Secondary Conn/Aviation Control has been replaced with a CXAM-1 radar control booth with searchlight platform, port and starboard catwalks have been removed, more doors have been cut into the 01 level, a 1.1" "Chicago Piano" tub is now in position with its associated director tub built onto the top of the freshwater tank in place of the salute gun platform which has been removed from the top of the freshwater tank). [Edit: the large AA platform is being designed now. This whole funnel design will be available shortly.]

1942-1943 ("short stack" - funnel cut down and aft 8" fire control station has been entirely replaced with a Mk.37 director platform, radar platform enlarged for SK radar, clipping rooms and aft-end 01-level equipment room added, and two AA director tubs installed):
Attachment:
Model Monkey 1-700 Saratoga 1942-1943 funnel.aa.jpg
Model Monkey 1-700 Saratoga 1942-1943 funnel.aa.jpg [ 31.11 KiB | Viewed 1174 times ]

1944-1945 ("short stack" - Mk.37 director platform and splinter shielding extended aft around the Mk.37 director tower, radar platform pedestal enlarged for the very heavy SM radar):
Attachment:
Model Monkey 1-350 Saratoga 1944-1945 funnel.aa.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Saratoga 1944-1945 funnel.aa.jpg [ 29.19 KiB | Viewed 1174 times ]

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Catalog: https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey

On the ways:
1/350 USS Saratoga CV-3 ('44)
1/350 USS Yorktown CV-10 ('45)
1/192 USS Missouri BB-63 ('45)
1/350 HMS Duke of York ('45)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:32 pm 
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How about the SCR-720 radar she received in June of 1945? When are you going to add that, huh?

(note - just giving him a hard time; it's a small radar and I don't even know where it was installed yet.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:49 pm 
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ModelMonkey wrote:
1941-1942 ("tall stack" - Secondary Conn/Aviation Control has been replaced with a CXAM-1 radar control booth with searchlight platform, port and starboard catwalks have been removed, more doors have been cut into the 01 level, a 1.1" "Chicago Piano" tub is now in position with its associated director tub built onto the top of the freshwater tank in place of the salute gun platform which has been removed from the top of the freshwater tank):

What about the .50 cal machine gun platform (Lexington style) that Sara carried at the level of the after skywatch platform 1941-42?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:38 pm 
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Tracy White wrote:
How about the SCR-720 radar she received in June of 1945? When are you going to add that, huh?

(note - just giving him a hard time; it's a small radar and I don't even know where it was installed yet.

Hehe. Easy, sniper. Set the selector switch to "safe", eject the chambered round, remove the magazine from the magazine well, place everything on the ground and step back from the weapon. Hehe.

But seriously, when you find something out about that radar, please let me know. If there is sufficient information from which to make a printable 3D design of it, I'm happy to add it to the design.

Dick J wrote:
ModelMonkey wrote:
1941-1942 ("tall stack" - Secondary Conn/Aviation Control has been replaced with a CXAM-1 radar control booth with searchlight platform, port and starboard catwalks have been removed, more doors have been cut into the 01 level, a 1.1" "Chicago Piano" tub is now in position with its associated director tub built onto the top of the freshwater tank in place of the salute gun platform which has been removed from the top of the freshwater tank):

What about the .50 cal machine gun platform (Lexington style) that Sara carried at the level of the after skywatch platform 1941-42?

Insufficient references regarding position, shape and extents to design it. Got nuthin'. Please help!

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Catalog: https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey

On the ways:
1/350 USS Saratoga CV-3 ('44)
1/350 USS Yorktown CV-10 ('45)
1/192 USS Missouri BB-63 ('45)
1/350 HMS Duke of York ('45)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:16 am 
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ModelMonkey wrote:
Insufficient references regarding position, shape and extents to design it. Got nuthin'. Please help!


I've only ever seen 2 pics of Sara that show that platform in anything that could be considered remotely clear.

One is in the pic Martin has posted on the bottom of page 8 of the plane handlers pushing the SBD. It appears to have railings instead of splinter shields.

The second was an overhead, port side shot of Sara in port somewhere where it was clearly visible halfway up the stack, but it was a long time ago and I was too dumb at the time to save the link or download the photo, and I've never been able to find it again.

Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Elvis965 wrote:
bottom of page 8


post.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:36 pm 
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Excellent.

Also, Dick J. graciously sent some photos last night that show the platform clearly enough to make a good 3D representation of it.

The photos reveal that its shape is remarkably similar to Lexington's except the aft end and, as noted, it is positioned lower. I'll post some preliminary renderings shortly and invite comments. I'd like to get the design as close as we can to accurate given the photos we have available.

On Lexington, the ammunition was lofted to the funnel's AA platform by two "dumbwaiters" with vertical tracks on the starboard side. The photos of Saratoga don't show them so I will assume she used the same dumbwaiter system as Lexington and probably on the same side. But this is speculative. Thoughts?

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Catalog: https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey

On the ways:
1/350 USS Saratoga CV-3 ('44)
1/350 USS Yorktown CV-10 ('45)
1/192 USS Missouri BB-63 ('45)
1/350 HMS Duke of York ('45)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:09 pm 
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Here are some renderings of the initial improved design for Saratoga's 1941 funnel based on Dick J.'s photos. The director tub on top of the fresh water tank may not have been added until 1942.

Constructive comments, please.


Attachments:
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.a.jpg
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.a.jpg [ 117.76 KiB | Viewed 1069 times ]
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.b.jpg
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.b.jpg [ 160.18 KiB | Viewed 1069 times ]
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.c.jpg
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.c.jpg [ 94.42 KiB | Viewed 1069 times ]
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.d.jpg
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.d.jpg [ 135.65 KiB | Viewed 1069 times ]
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.e.jpg
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.e.jpg [ 160.68 KiB | Viewed 1069 times ]

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-Steve Larsen
Catalog: https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey

On the ways:
1/350 USS Saratoga CV-3 ('44)
1/350 USS Yorktown CV-10 ('45)
1/192 USS Missouri BB-63 ('45)
1/350 HMS Duke of York ('45)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:24 am 
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Don't forget the small platforms just below the main platform that held the water tanks for the .50 cal's cooling systems.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:24 am 
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Dick J wrote:
Don't forget the small platforms just below the main platform that held the water tanks for the .50 cal's cooling systems.

Aye, Cap'n. Thanks for all the help and reference photos!

After further study of the photographs and some adjustments, here's the revised design.


Attachments:
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.a.png
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.a.png [ 179.73 KiB | Viewed 997 times ]
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.b.png
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.b.png [ 211.29 KiB | Viewed 997 times ]
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.c.jpg
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.c.jpg [ 199.24 KiB | Viewed 997 times ]
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.d.jpg
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.d.jpg [ 161.53 KiB | Viewed 997 times ]
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.e.jpg
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.e.jpg [ 157.13 KiB | Viewed 997 times ]
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.f.jpg
Model Monkey Saratoga 1941 Funnel.f.jpg [ 124.67 KiB | Viewed 997 times ]

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-Steve Larsen
Catalog: https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey

On the ways:
1/350 USS Saratoga CV-3 ('44)
1/350 USS Yorktown CV-10 ('45)
1/192 USS Missouri BB-63 ('45)
1/350 HMS Duke of York ('45)
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:39 am 
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Hello all , I have been out of the hobby for the past 20 or so years. Finally returning and have started building again. I have the 700 scale Fujimi Lexington and Saratoga which I had planned on starting soon. I understand Tamiya has produced a superior kit of Sara and was wondering if I should just put the Fujimi Lex and Sara in a spars box and purchase the Tamiya kit or keep the Fujimi and try to build a decent model from the two I have.

Roswell


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