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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:24 am 
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Another question, does anyone have an image of the stand compass on an US WWI era battleship? I assume the same stand compass would be carried through WWII on older battleships.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:18 pm 
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During 1942 Refit Pennsylvania’s prominent Midship boat cranes were removed and replaced by a pair of simple booms stepped behind the new aft superstructure to handle the remaining 26 foot whalers. Unlike the crane it replaced, it looks like the booms had no integral machinery whatsoever. It was simply a long tube pivoted on the deck at one end, and handed by tackles affixed to the other end. There seems to be tackles for raising and lowering the boom, swinging the boom, and raising the lowering the hoisting hook.

The tackles seems to not be permanently attached to any machinery either. They seem to normally be belayed somewhere. When they are used, they are either pulled by hand or are wrapped around a new Drum winch Installed ahead of the 40mm bofor tub.

Does anyone have photos of where these tackles are belayed to when stowed?

Also, I suspect the arrangement of tackles on the boom is largely standard. Is there any diagrams showing how such booms are typically rigged aboard WWII era USN ships?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:23 pm 
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chuck wrote:
During 1942 Refit Pennsylvania’s prominent Midship boat cranes were removed and replaced by a pair of simple booms stepped behind the new aft superstructure to handle the remaining 26 foot whalers. Unlike the crane it replaced, it looks like the booms had no integral machinery whatsoever. It was simply a long tube pivoted on the deck at one end, and handed by tackles affixed to the other end. There seems to be tackles for raising and lowering the boom, swinging the boom, and raising the lowering the hoisting hook.

The tackles seems to not be permanently attached to any machinery either. They seem to normally be belayed somewhere. When they are used, they are either pulled by hand or are wrapped around a new Drum winch Installed ahead of the 40mm bofor tub.

Does anyone have photos of where these tackles are belayed to when stowed?

Also, I suspect the arrangement of tackles on the boom is largely standard. Is there any diagrams showing how such booms are typically rigged aboard WWII era USN ships?


I quoted my own message because in the original post, for some reason parts of the message I posed did not show up.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:58 pm 
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what other refit did she have in 1942 as both cranes still there in March 1942.
http://navsource.org/archives/01/038/013803i.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/38a.htm


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:34 pm 
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FYI - this may have already been posted, but it seems NARA has digitized the microfilm rolls for BB-38 and BB-39 hull plans and made them available on the Archives.gov website:

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/124057820
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/124057238

Even more available here: https://catalog.archives.gov/search?q=* ... ype=online


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:48 pm 
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DavidP wrote:
what other refit did she have in 1942 as both cranes still there in March 1942.
http://navsource.org/archives/01/038/013803i.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/38a.htm



she had another much larger refit at Mare Island sometime between Midway and august 1942. the aft tripod was removed and replaced with a new stub superstructure. the aft director was removed from the tripp’s and set atop the new stub superstructure. the open single mount 5”/25 were replaced by twin 5”/38 turrets. the 5”/57 casemates were replaced by handling rooms for the new 5”/38, and the twin cranes were removed, their role taken by the afore mentioned booms.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:52 am 
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Ian Roberts said:
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FYI - this may have already been posted, but it seems NARA has digitized the microfilm rolls for BB-38 and BB-39 hull plans and made them available on the Archives.gov website:


Thanks Ian!! These links (to the plans) compliment the ones I found at NARA in 2016 which show her 1935 rebuild and will come in handy when I begin my PENNSY build in the near future!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm 
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Some photos from NARA II, courtesy of James Noblin, of Pennsy after her late 1942/early Jan 43 refit/rebuild. I've cropped most of them down to highlight the area you are interested in.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:51 pm 
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thanks, Martin!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:19 pm 
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Can anyone tell me what the accuracy issues are with Dragon's 1/700 Pennsylvania are? I've scanned through all the posts here and I've not seen anything about it. I've heard the fighting top is wrong but I'm sure there were other issues?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:40 pm 
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have you read this? http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html
model is what the ship looked like before her last refit in June 1945.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:27 am 
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DavidP wrote:
have you read this? http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html
model is what the ship looked like before her last refit in June 1945.



Yes but it doesn't answer my question - I've got the kit so an in box review telling me what's in the box isn't what I'm looking for. I know there's accuracy issues with the kit but I can't remember what they are and where I saw them.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:59 am 
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Just by looking at the pictures of the sprue and instructions, the kit has a fair number of accuracy issues:

1. The barbettes of the B and X turrets are not stepped as depicted. They are perfectly cylindrical. What dragon attempted to depict with step and vertical bars are actually foot rails that protrudes from the sides of the barbettes.

2. The prominent air vents on the former boat deck between the funnel and aft superstructure are completely omitted.

3. There are two boat boom cranes behind the aft superstructure, not one, depicted in the kit as parts A14 and A37

4. Parts A36, k-7, and A67, K-9 And K-6 depict the mast and radar configuration after the June 1945 refit. The rest of the kit depicts the ship before June 1945.

5. There is much wrong with the shape of aft superstructure A43 and A42.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:53 pm 
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This is taken from film footage of President Roosevelt inspecting the fleet in 1938. Notice Pennsylvania has four Seagull planes aboard. Her three have red tails. The fourth appears to have a white tail.
Image


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:04 pm 
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chuck wrote:
Just by looking at the pictures of the sprue and instructions, the kit has a fair number of accuracy issues:

1. The barbettes of the B and X turrets are not stepped as depicted. They are perfectly cylindrical. What dragon attempted to depict with step and vertical bars are actually foot rails that protrudes from the sides of the barbettes.

2. The prominent air vents on the former boat deck between the funnel and aft superstructure are completely omitted.

3. There are two boat boom cranes behind the aft superstructure, not one, depicted in the kit as parts A14 and A37

4. Parts A36, k-7, and A67, K-9 And K-6 depict the mast and radar configuration after the June 1945 refit. The rest of the kit depicts the ship before June 1945.

5. There is much wrong with the shape of aft superstructure A43 and A42.


Thanks for that.

I can fix some of the errors with the Model Monkey forward and aft superstructures, which will also better represent the ship after the Jul 45 fit. I've also noticed what looks like a twin Bofors, in place of the old rangefinder on the front of the forward superstructure, which is easy enough to fix.

thanks
Mike


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:06 pm 
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I don't think it is white as it would look like same color as the fuselage which it isn't. almost appears to be same color as the ship's hull.

Mike, have a look at this even tho supposed to be Mar 45 but is most definitely post June 45 refit.
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... vania2.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/BB38/BOGP/


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:25 pm 
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White tail and what appears to be a dark blue fuselage. This looks like a CAG color scheme, Was Pennsylvania a Flagship at this time and was this a "Guest's" Plane?

Matt

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:37 am 
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Mike W wrote:
chuck wrote:
Just by looking at the pictures of the sprue and instructions, the kit has a fair number of accuracy issues:

1. The barbettes of the B and X turrets are not stepped as depicted. They are perfectly cylindrical. What dragon attempted to depict with step and vertical bars are actually foot rails that protrudes from the sides of the barbettes.

2. The prominent air vents on the former boat deck between the funnel and aft superstructure are completely omitted.

3. There are two boat boom cranes behind the aft superstructure, not one, depicted in the kit as parts A14 and A37

4. Parts A36, k-7, and A67, K-9 And K-6 depict the mast and radar configuration after the June 1945 refit. The rest of the kit depicts the ship before June 1945.

5. There is much wrong with the shape of aft superstructure A43 and A42.


Thanks for that.

I can fix some of the errors with the Model Monkey forward and aft superstructures, which will also better represent the ship after the Jul 45 fit. I've also noticed what looks like a twin Bofors, in place of the old rangefinder on the front of the forward superstructure, which is easy enough to fix.

thanks
Mike


Yes. The optical range finder for the original main battery fire control was removed and a new twin bofor installed in its place. At the time the USN was rushing a program to give warships more AA guns that can track a target crossing the ship’s bow as part of the anti-kamikaze measure. Not too much could be done on the Pennsylvania due to available space restrictions, The twin 40mm bofor was it.

Another part of anti-kamikaze measure was to add two new MK-50 dual purpose directors to the rear superstructure above the boom cranes for the boats. The Pennsylvania was modernized to carry 16 gun 5”/38 battery in 1942, but because her superstructure was only partially rebuilt, there was no room for 4 mk-37 director as installed on other modernized old battleships whose superstructures were more thoroughly remodeled, such as the West Virginia, or the Nevada. The MK-50 was originally developed as a lighter, simpler tachymetric director that can be easily fitted to ships still carrying the WWI vintage 3” AA guns. It development was much delayed, and the project was cancelled after just a few directors were built. Two of the few built were installed on the Pennsylvania to make up for her having 2 few Mk-37 directors.

Around June 1945, the following others changes were also made:

1. The flat mattress SK radar on the foretop was replaced by the round dish SK-2.

2. The MK3 fire control radar on top of forward director was replaced by an experimental mk-21 fire control radar

3. The original rear director with its MK-3 fire control radar was completely replaced by a new mk-34 director originally intended for one of the Cleveland class light cruisers that was converted to light carrier. The new director carried mk-13 radar.

4.The number of search lights around the rear director was reduced to 2.

5. The SG surface search radar on the main mast was replaced by a SP Height firing fighter direction radar

6. Two small director towers were added midship. The had mk-57 radar directors for the 40mm bofors.

7. A whole series of electronic countermeasure antennas were added to the lattice yard arms of the forward superstructure.

The scope of modernization undertaken in June 1945 seems to make it clear the Pennsylvania was intended to continue to serve as a major front line unit during invasion of Japan, possibly continuing in a flagship role of some kind.

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