The Ship Model Forum

Thanks, Fred!

While waiting for this great Kansas weather to get better so that I can do the work on my 1/200 Arizona that needs to be done outside, I started to research the layout of the degaussing cable on the ship. I am in no way saying that all of my conclusions are correct. I am only going by what few books, internet sources and some pictures of the wreck that I had taken in 2004. Some issues that I am having problems resolving are for one, the size, number and quantity of the cables and how they were arranged on the decks. Trying to ascertain their size is kind of a guess as when I try to zoom in to get a better look, the picture gets too pixilated. In regards as to how they were arranged, they were either laid side by side next to each other or stacked one on top of the other in pairs with a type of mounting bracket or with three (maybe more) cables with two laid side by side and one above, centered. The second issue is how it transitions from the main deck through Frame 88 and up and out of the upper deck. I think I may have an answer for the second just by what I think I see in a salvage picture of another battleship at Pearl Harbor but I'll get to that part when I get to it. If anyone reading this knows of better information, plans pictures or sources, please feel free to give your input. Right now I am starting at the bow and heading aft. I will be updating and editing this as I go along so please bear with me as my computer skills are rather poor and slow.

The forward end of the degaussing cable leaves the upper deck from what I can tell between frames 4 and 5. This puts it just forward of the most forward hawse pipes and inboard of the scupper/waterway. You can barely make it out in this picture that Jeff Sharp let me borrow from his work in Progress thread. The area that I am referencing is the orange arrows. The red arrows and green circles are Jeff's work so please disregard them as they from one of his post.






Here is a photo mosaic that I found online somewhere that I can't recall where but it shows the cable better in the upper half of the picture.

Here is a not so good zoomed in view of that area.


The cables proceed outward and enter the waterway somewhere around frame 7 or possibly 8 which is about even with the front of the second hawse pipe and just forward of the first open chock. It then follows the contour of the deck following all bends, curves while passing under the open chocks and possibly inboard of fittings like the clothes line tripod at frame 22. I have seen the pictures of Pennsylvania during that ships refit in early 1942 and the layout between the two sister ships is very similar except that Pennsylvania's cables in some areas did not follow the contour of the waterway but instead passed over open air from point to point either by being supported or encased in some structure. It is possible Arizona also did this but for now, I will keep it this way just because of what I see in the late 1941 pictures of the ship preparing to take the Kingfishers aboard. Will have to look at those pics again. This could be a result of that ships 1942 refit and it is possiblet that Pennsylvania's layout was just like Arizona's at the time of the attack on Pearl. I have a picture of Penn during the refit but I am having a hard time getting the picture to meet the requirements to be posted. Maybe later.

Moving on to the area around frame 88 which is the break in the deck. The cable will pass down through the upper deck between frames 84 and 85 which is across from where the after portion of the round casemate meets up with the bulkhead that is part of the superstructure deck walls. It is now inboard of the waterway.

Ok Jon, let me give you something else to ponder.






Do you see any reason why they would have to be color coded? Or is this just shadow effect?

I'm thinking shadows, just because time of day, year and position of sun. Any idea as to a date the film was shot? I keep wanting to order that film but, I keep forgetting. I eventually will order it though. If you have the time, review the film and let me know if there is something new or something I have gotten wrong. Thanks for the input.

I'm thinking shadows too - you can see the light cable outboard on the port side.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Well, her kingfishers have yellow wings. The orders to paint those birds in overall light gray was already issued so I'm going to guess Feb.'41 maybe Mar. '41 at the latest.

Tracy, what are your thoughts about the size, number of and layout of the cables?

I haven't seen any official documents for battleships - there are plans for some of the cruisers at NARA San Francisco that I've looked at (too big to scan) and there were just two - but we know the Lexington and Yorktown class carriers had more. Good work on sleuthing, I wish I had time at NARA College park to go through the 36 rolls of BB38 class plans they have =/

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

There are several photos of Pennsylvania at Mare Island in early '42 that show the cable arrangement on that ship. This one is probably the best:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013839.jpg

_________________
Steve Sobieralski
Tampa Bay Ship Model Society

Trying to find a picture of how the cables exit out of frame 88 and onto the main deck is damn near impossible. I wish I had the time and resources to get to any of the archives that would have this information. But, I have found one that was taken of the West Virginia from the port quarter when it was in dry dock under going repairs from the Pearl Harbor attack. Not sure if Arizona was this way but at least it is a starting point. What ever is going on with the cable inside the ship between frames 84 and 85, I don't have the slightest clue. According to the Arizona's 1941 Booklet of General Plans , the cables would pass through the Optical Shop and the Deck Office on the starboard side of the ship. On the port side, it would pass through the Executive Officers Office. You can find the Booklet of General Plans on Tracy Whites website Researcher at Large or is it Researcher @ Large. Help me out Tracy. In the picture of West Virginia, the cables first appears at the half way point of the curved section of the ships shell plating. On the Arizona, this downward curving plate runs from frame 88 to frame 92-3and then levels out to the main deck. I have messed with the W. Virginia photo in Photoshop Essentials but the quality becomes so pixilated when zooming in that it comes useless. Maybe some one with better skills and equipment can do better.

Here is closer look at the cable and how it follows the curves shell plating on West Virginia.

From this point on, the cables run in the waterways under the open chocks and around any obstruction like it did on the main deck. When it gets to around frame 146, it leaves the waterway and immediately enters the deck around frame 147.

Well, that's what I have for the layout. Now I just need to figure out if it is two or three cables or a combination of both.

Any idea why the degaussing cable went under the deck at the bow and the stern? Why not wrap it around above the deck? Also, any idea where it went after it went under the deck?

That question has been asked before and I don't have an answer.

On the boat deck underneath the boat racks, Arizona had two large square vents. I can't seem to find any pics of either of these vents to determine the height and shape. Does anyone have any pics or info on these vents? I'm also curious to determine how the boat racks avoided bumping into these vents.
Thanks

Look in the wreck/ salvage shots - if there aren't any in the Squadron at Sea Arizona book I'll see what I can post - but it won't be until this weekend.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

You can see them in the wreck/salvage photos.

There is another picture with some officers on the boat deck looking aft taken after the war I believe and it has a better view. I guess the vents were positioned between the boat cradles legs

So it looks like it's about 2ft high. Was the top grating then?

Not sure. It's just another area of the ship that just isn't documented very well. Gonna go out on a limb here and say that they probably had solid roof and that the bottom side of the vent (picture a soffit on your house) may have been mesh. I think a lot of mushroom vents were that way.

OK, needed a break from work and am cruising my salvage photos looking for BB degaussing cables and books for vent photos. Here's a shot of the port vent bases with an overlay of the BOGP plan to show position:



Same vents are visible on page 256 of the Stillwell book, but one thing to note here is a better view of the height and top lip - I believe that this was the bottom of the opening as it's rounded for better air flow, etc. I looked through the high-res stuff and books I had but no good or incidental photos yet.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy. The plans would indicate that the lid was much bigger than the base in your pic. It must have had a flat top?