The Ship Model Forum

That would be my guess. There were flat covers on other ships, and for clearance and access it makes the most sense to me. Probably somewhat of a smooth beveled edge though.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

On the plans, what do you make of the two circles inside the square on one of the vents? They are dotted lines which would indicate something under the vent hood?

That's generally what the dashed line means - you see it on the inner diameter on other vents. Not sure what it means in this case as I haven't seen any photos of the cap - it could be a circular vent for some separate purpose that's not shown on the BOGP plans.

Man, you guys are REALLY making me wish I had time to pull the BB38 class plans at NARA...

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I wonder if the outside circle should be solid instead of dashed. That would make more sense and would indicate that a round vent extended above the square vent for added ventilation. Hmm...

Well, after looking at 79 pages of this thread, I have two questions that I don't think have been asked before:

1. Torpedo bulge inspection hatches. Did the Arizona have them, and if so, where could I find a picture, drawing or sketch showing their locations?

2. In most of the models I've seen, the motor launch/taxi boat cabins are white, usually in concert with the lighter gray color scheme. In the dark camouflage gray, November 1941 and/or earlier... would those cabins have been painted over to match the dark and superstructure color?

Thanks for your attention.

_________________
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... uck-Bauer/

1) Shown on the second deck level of sheet four on her Booklet of General Plans.

2) They were to be painted dark gray as well. You're not alone, even the Commandant of the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard was confused.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy,

I love the understatement in that memo!

OK, so the cabins should be dark gray, the decks should be also? (They sure would look nicer on a model in natural wood, though.)

Regarding the drawings, I'm sorry to say I'm confused...
Are the inspection hatches labeled "F.W.B.P." on the top drawing, or are they actually drawn in--on the ledge of the bulge--in the middle drawing, where it says "u.b. void"?

_________________
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... uck-Bauer/

It would be the F.W.B.P. in the top drawing.

I think you can paint them wood and challenge anyone to prove you wrong - deck paint was still new at the time of the attack and not every battleship had painted their wood decks, including Arizona.



The top drawing (labeled Second Deck on the right side) shows the top of the void, and the "F.W.B.P" is the access patch. I'm not 100% sure what the FWBP actually means. The middle drawing (Third and Splinter Decks) is showing the inside of the top level of the blisters, and the bottom drawing (First Platform) shows both hatches down to lower levels of the blister as well as access doors for crew to move fore and aft during inspections. If we take the port side on that drawing, A-8-UB (UB stands for "upper blister" and LB stands for "Lower Blister" - the blisters were sectioned into two compartments vertically) is the first to have doors for fore and aft access. Each blister compartment has a hatch down, but only A-8-UB, A-14-UB, B-4-UB, etc., have the doors. If you put your fingers on the blister access plates up top and scroll back and forth, you'll notice that they correspond with the compartments that have the doors, and you can begin to understand how they moved around during inspections. Just a little side note...

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Ok, I think I've got it.
The WEM photo etch set I have includes a large number of "torpedo bulge inspection hatches" and they tell you to do independent research to confirm their locations. Looks like these PE hatches must go where the F.W.B.P.'s are in this schematic. Every other hatch is internal.

Thanks for the bonus explanation regarding the different levels and the inspection process. I had forgotten how big those blisters were and that humans can actually fit inside. Must not have been the most fun job on the ship to inspect the insides of those bulges.

And I'm really happy to hear what you had to say about those motor launch decks. Mine will be wood.

Thanks again for all the time you put into this, Tracy.

---Chuck B.

_________________
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... uck-Bauer/

Chuck,
Don't use WEM's hatches for the blisters. They are the wrong shape and way too small. The hatches were oval in shape.

You know, I was sort of wondering about that. For some reason they didn't look right, but my concern was overpowered by my faith in WEM's research. Thanks for the tip.

By the way, I have seen snippets of your 1/200 build. Looks like it will be a masterpiece.

_________________
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... uck-Bauer/

Thanks.
I too was pretty shocked with the effort WEM put forth on this PE set. It has lots of issues.

We do try Tracy

_________________
If ya lose yer sense of humor...
You've lost everything...

On the Bench:
1/720 Italeri CVN-68 ca 1976/77
1/800 ARii 1/800 CV-59 backdating to 1961 (CVA-59)
1/700Trumpy USS Hornet CV-8 "Doolittle Raiders"

I was at NARA last week, but no time to get to the plans floor

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

OK, starting some of the dump from my trip to NARA College Park last week.

First off, I found two "Store invoice" forms indicating Arizona had requested 12 25-person balsa rafts and 12 40-person balsa rafts on April 19 of 1941. The 25-person invoice was dated August 14, 1941, but neither has any information indicating when/where they were delivered. However, we can see numerous rafts in the Oct/November drydock photos and attack aftermath. I know of at least five locations - either side of the #2 and #3 barbettes and at the flag level splinter/wind shields on the starboard side (most likely on the port side as well, but we don't have a photo on that side so there's no proof). I do not have drawings and dimensions of each to be absolutely clear which was where, and in what quantities. You will have to guess at this for the time being, until I or someone else can find "Combatships Confidential Despatch 120436" which the reference as authorization to order the rafts.

I found a memo from BuShips to the Commandant of the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard dated October of 1940 changing the installation of degaussing cables from the planned side of the hull to an "on-deck" design. No plans or photos were included and it was "desired that this installation be accomplished on the ARIZONA during the projected early availability at Navy Yard, Puget Sound" (which happened December 1940 - January 1941). Key passages:





Finally, I came across a proposed addition of doors to the pilot house - this was approved for the 1942 refit, which obviously never happened. However, there was a sketch showing the proposed locations that might help those of us wanting to add a minimal interior to this area on the 1/200th kit:

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

IIRCC, wasn't there some talk about there being possibly two rafts on top of turret two in the Oct dry dock picture when it was first posted? As to there size and dimensions, I have a couple of Steve Wipers Warship pictorials that have provide that info. I'll try to scan and post later (with acknowledging who the source was) unless Steve objects. Also, there is a picture with Pennsylvania in the foreground and Arizona and Nevada in the back ground (taken from Argonne I believe in Sept or Oct of 1941) that shows some rafts stacked up on the after portion of the boat deck. It may be not correct for Arizona but it could be another location possibility. Just more food for thought.

There definitely was two rafts on top of turret 2, slightly to the starboard side. To me they look like 40 man rafts.

Thanks, Tracy. That's some great stuff. Now I can add some detail to my Trumpy kit.

Here's some more turret top eye candy. Is there enough info here to nail down the year?