The Ship Model Forum

Since I had the plan from 1986 I decided to see if there was any cable detail shown at the break. I did find it on the starboard side, but not the port side. The detail looks like it matches what was shown in the pictures from the USS Pennsylvania from above. So this seems to confirm the Pennsylvania and Arizona had the cables configured the same way. The three circles indicate where the cable goes into the deck at each end and the point of the break between decks.

Franz

There is a bit of detail present at the bow. Just have to pick it out from the rest of the clutter. Portside is more visible with the bundle of cables showing. Looks like there was a square opening where the cables went through the deck.

Jeff, I noted the square openings too, but only after making the caption to the original drawing. It makes a good starting point for determining on the bow were the cables go into the deck. I still think there was some kind of cover over the cables going in to the openings as I describe in the close up pictures of the bow. I believe this was done to keep water out. I think they do not show up on the drawing because they may have been blown off by the explosion.

What do you think?

Franz

Sat., 5:21 am here in the Triad, NC - Florence is blowing, but not much else taking place, YET... We expect heavy rain later today/tonight and beyond.

OK, back to the degaussing cable topic - here is the "bitter end" of the stbd cable on BB-38 in 1942 from her Mare Island photo #1111-42:

The opening appears oval in shape but that is debatable. There is, as Franz has pointed out, an outer cover transitioning into the opening which would more than likely be a waterproof fitting.

It's hard (if not impossible) to see if the port side also has a cable.

Now, on the other end of things, here is the degaussing cable going into the hull at the aft end of the ship. This is a clip from her Mare Island photo #1104-42:


So, that's the extent of this cable, fore & aft.

Hope this helps,

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hi Franz,
After I posted it I noticed that you noted it as well. Sorry about that. I agree that there was a cover. No doubt to to keep water and debris out.

Hank,
Stay safe my friend! Those cropped shots show some amazing detail.

Larry,
The stern shot is one of the best you are going to find that shows both of the Operating Stands for the aft crane. This is another detail that gets lost on models.

Jeff, not a problem. I too love this site. Everyone does works together to figure something out! The photo's showing the bow end of the cable and stern end are ones I did not have. I do now! I think we have the degaussing cables fairly covered, but always open to new information.

Thanks to everyone and those in the hurricane area stay safe!

Regards

Franz

Jeff,
You are exactly right, this is another great picture. All these pictures and drawings are and have been extremely helpful. Now I just have to finalize the location(s) of the one vs the three cables and I can get going recreating them.

Larry

Maybe this could be of some help in figuring out how and where the cables are laid out.

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/we ... ussing.htm

I have finally decided how I’m going to run the degaussing cables, but first I want to thank each and every one you who responded to my query. You guys are extraordinary in your efforts in getting to the facts.
I’m starting with three lines at the bow, coming out of the deck as shown on Franz’s drawing. They will head aft bundled until they get to the area of the observation platform where they will fan out as Jeff’s picture on page 101 of the forum shows and his suggested reason for it. They will come back together and turn into a single cable at the open chock just before the deck extension platform. It will then enter the deck at the point indicated in Hank’s photo. It will come out of the bulwark at a point about one third of the way down and curve towards the aft deck as shown in Hank’s “smoking gun “ picture. From there it will go aft to the open chock just before the #3 barbette and change back to three cables again at the point shown in Jeff’s picture. The three cables will run to the aft end and fan out again just before they enter the deck as indicated on Franz’s drawing.
I based my conclusions on all the pictures mentioned above and others of the Pennsy on the Nav Source website and also Jon's article on degaussing cables, which might explain why a one and three cable system existed. There were different systems for fore and aft and also one for amidships.
As you can see this was a total group effort and if I failed to mention anyone, I humbly apologize. It was an oversight. If you don’t agree with my findings and feel there was something different, please let me know.
Thank you so much.

Larry

Thanks Jon! That helps to explain a lot of what we are seeing. Now we know the other two cables just didn’t stop. They went into the deck and connected to the other side. It makes sense now why we saw the cables lay out just past the #2 turret in the photo I posted earlier. The cables needed to go just far enough aft to clear the back end of Barbette #2 when crossing to the other side.
Good stuff! Thanks buddy! Good to hear from you again!

Larry, that sounds like a plan to me. With the information all of us have pieced together I think it is as valid as any other possible option. I think Jeff is correct about the cables flattening out prior to the observation platform and could possibly do the same where the entry ports are put in place when at anchor.

We do need to be careful about over thinking this too as the following photos show the degaussing cable layouts changed over time. The first photo was Jeff's showing the cabling following along the deck edge inboard of the railings(I'm assuming this was Arizona - Jeff please correct me if I'm wrong). The other photo shows the cabling on the USS Pennsylvania (taken post Pearl Harbor -1942) going outboard of the deck edge in two places on the photo (Circled). It's not really important that they may be different ships or at different times, the point is that there are differences. Finally if you look at photos of the Pennsylvania later in the war she no longer shows any degaussing cables on the deck at all. I'm betting by then they had time to rout them all below deck and get rid of the clutter they caused being on the deck.

As for me I plan to follow close to what you are doing except I plan on keeping a 3 cable grouping before and after the flattening out and before and after they go into the deck for the break. My reasoning for this is as much for aesthetics and consistency than for any other reason. Again either of our plans or Jeff's implementation based on what he knew at the time make for a more accurate model than any without the degaussing cables.

I do reserve the right to change my plan based on any other new information that may come to light or at least until I implement it!

Franz

After looking at all these pictures of the Pennsy I noticed this white object by the Mainmast and the veggie locker. I was wondering if it might be that same object that I was asking about on the Arizona, although it looks like it's upside down compared to the Arizona.

Larry
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013839a.jpg

Larry, my 2 cents worth:

It's on the opposite side from the Arizona photo, this photo was from 1942, it was probably added after the ship was painted (I can't believe they would leave it white) and it's on the Pennsylvania. It also seems it was installed fairly recently relative to the photo.

Finally I didn't find any photos between this in port period and when they finally removed the main top and replaced it with a mast carrying radar. So I wasn't able to determine if it was a temporary change during the in port period or remained till the next major changes to the ship.

I still stand by my research on the Arizona at the time of Pearl Harbor.

Franz

Here are a couple more pics of the degaussing cable on the starboard side showing where it entered the deck just before the break.

Jeff,

Really good find! I've just added these to my collection of degaussing cable photos.

Franz

Well I've finally scraped together funds to take the dive and start acquiring Items for my build of the Arizona. Obviously there is only one choice for the Arizona (non-rc version). I have enough other funds to obtain the KA Models Deluxe Accessory Pack for 1/200 Trumpeter Arizona(comes with a deck) and the WEM Photo etch kit that has the keel templates. Once I get more funds I still want to get the KA Models plus pack for the kit and then some specific items off of Shapeways such as the anchor chains.

I'm torn between getting the kit and PE that I can now or wait till the Christmas season approaches and things might go on sale. The problem is most of these items are made in China and we all know how trade is going with them right now.

I'm leaning towards getting the Kit and PE sets that I have funds for now.

I'm soliciting input from anyone as to what they think of my plan.

Note: I do not intend to populate my model with scale sailors that's why no mention of these sets.

Thanks for any feedback.

Franz

Okay Guys,
Here I go again with a question.
Did the antennae tower on top of the veggie locker exist in 1941?
I'll cite the two photos of her that I have used before as references.

http://navsource.org/archives/01/039/013933v.jpg In this one taken in 1940, it doesn't seem to be there.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013921a.jpg In this 1941 photo, it looks to be the tower in front of the starboard tripod mast support leg.
What do you think?

Larry

Larry,
I've looked at one of my post Pearl Harbor photos and The Antenna tower is definitely there. One of the best photos of it and of how the antenna wires go into it is from when the ship was first modernized. It is one of 3 or 4 photos in Navsource that are one right after the other showing her 30's modernization.
http://navsource.org/archives/01/013951a.jpg

I think Jeff in his build log goes into some detail on how the various antenna towers were rigged and he includes the one in question.

The first photo your using is much grainier and I just think it may be getting lost in the clutter. You can barely make out the lines to the the yardarms and none of the antenna wires show up. It is amazing though that I can make out two of the speakers for the ships 1mc. The nearer one is on a vent stack near Turret 3 and the other is a black dot on the support column for the director on the bridge.

Franz

Franz,
If would have taken the time to look at the 1941 General Arrangement plans, I would have seen it. It definitely is there.

Larry