The Ship Model Forum

Franz,
That's a cool MG by Hasbro. Here's another little detail for you to consider adding. Notice the "sight line" for lack of better term that extends out about 3 feet beyond the end of the barrel.


Came across this cool shot of her Bow. This view really shows how pointed the tip of the bow was. Unfortunately another thing wrong with the Trumpeter kit.

Unfortunately, the toy or whoever assembled it, put the hoses in the wrong place. Look at the image I posted of the 50-cal on USS ENTERPRISE. The hoses should enter the stationary pedestal at the top where the mount swivels with the gun. The way they have it, the hoses would get wrapped around the pedestal as the gun was trained in a circle and the mount would require being rotated the other direction to unwind. Unless the hoses got pulled lose.

Here is another image showing the hoses better. This 50-cal MG is a different Mark that the ones seen in the USS ENTERPRISE photo.

Rick, I think there were variations on that gun. For example the first two images I posted (not the toy) show at least one of the hoses going down to the base. Also the cooling jacket around the barrel goes the full length of the barrel. The last photo you posted shows what almost looks like a silencer at the end of the water jacket (probably a muzzle break of some type).

I've just been reading a book concerning the mobilization of the U.S. for WW II called A Call To Arms (Mobilizing America For World War II) by Maury Klein. One of the issues discussed in the book was how hard it was to ramp up production and still keep up with the constant changes requested by the military to equipment. The Army had more than one variant of this gun and I'm betting the Navy did too.

Franz

Jeff, love the picture of the bow. A question though the site line for which gun? I see a lot going on in the picture of the birds nest, but can't make out a lot of it.

Franz

Regarding those "sight lines"... I wonder if that's what gave rise to the Profile Morskie book (or was it an AJ Press book? Don't have it with me at the moment) claiming Arizona was equipped with 20mm Oerlikons at the time of her sinking?
Which in turn made me wonder: Perhaps those sticks were added to get the gunners used to the longer barrels of the impending upgrade?

- Sean F.

Jeff are you referring to what look like hazy lines extending from the end of the barrels?

Sean thinks they are sticks.

I would almost say it looks like smoke exiting the barrels as they are being fired. Do you know when this photo was taken? It doesn't necessarily have to be during the Pearl Harbor attack as I know they practiced firing the 50 cal mgs along with all the other guns at various times.


Franz

Yeah that is what I’m referring to. Sorry the photo is so blurry but they are definitely sticks. I’ll try to find a clearer pic.

The "sticks" were an attempt to have some sort of sights for gunners tracking aircraft targets. If you note on the 50-cal MGs in the USS ENTERPRISE photo, there are no gunsights other than a "rifle-like" sights on the gun, only good if you were shooting at surface targets. The sticks would allow the gunnery to at least gauge a lead angle on his shooting. It didn't help much in ranging outside of loosely sighting on the stick and front gunsight for pre-determined ranges. Tracers were the main way for a gunner to track how well he was shooting.

As for ... Regarding those "sight lines"... I wonder if that's what gave rise to the Profile Morskie book (or was it an AJ Press book? Don't have it with me at the moment) claiming Arizona was equipped with 20mm Oerlikons at the time of her sinking? ...

The Eastern European books seem to have many errors (as did OLDER pre-David Doyle Squadron Books) on USN warships. There were NO 20-mm guns installed at Pearl Harbor. The first ship at Pearl Harbor "scheduled" to get the guns was USS UTAH in her role of a Gunnery Training Ship to train gunners. The first 20-mm guns were installed on USN ships in late December 1941 and early January 1942. There were NO PLANS to install 20-mm guns in the "birdbaths" at the top of the mainmast tripod.

It was that claim of 20mm mounts on Arizona that got me to notice the sticks in the first place - otherwise, they're awfully easy to miss/ignore, since you wouldn't expect them.
Thinking of the bulky shape of the cooling sleeve and lack of clearly visible muzzle protrusion when you're operating the thing... and lack of a sight (wonder why? For that matter, why sling them so low that the gunner is literally shooting from the hip?)... I can see the usefulness of adding a "pointer"

- Sean F.

A couple more looks at the "sticks".

Jeff, those are great photo's and I'm going to add them to my file!

Now If I can figure out how to add that detail (we're talking really really small with really really fat fingers) I'm imagining all 50 cal mg's on Arizona had them.

Franz

Jeff I found the following picture on this site: https://www.nps.gov/media/photo/gallery ... 56EE24B907
If you click on the "download" for the picture and then do a save file it will download the original file size down to your computer.

I believe I see the stick on the mg in the forground on the formast. This is the most detailed example of this photo I've found.

Franz

Yep, I see it too. Good find.

If I had to guess, the sticks(great catch by the way, never noticed them) were in place of cut off cams. The one on the formast shows that the “Stick” would interact with the Bars to stop the over focused gunner from shooting into the superstructure. The ones in the bird bath I imagine work the same but keep the fun from depressing behind the splinter sheild and causing damage.

Just my thoughts,

Matt

_________________
In the yards right now:
USS Utah AG-16
On Hold
1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
1/350 Trumpeter Texas with a twist

You could be right about that. It makes sense. I was hoping to find a look at the MG's on the funnel. To me it seems like an odd place to put an MG given such a small area of clearance to shoot in with the large boat crane just to the aft and the large yard arm with all the flag lines forward.
The only view I can find of this area is this look but I see no MG there. I can see guide lines in place but no MG.

I looked at the last known photo of the Arizona and cropped out the detail of both the smoke stack and the Mainmast with the birds nest on it.

Looking at both of those you see a long object in each that both look like they are covered with canvas. If the sticks were on them in this photo that would explain the extra length. I think both of these are MG's trained in the upright position.

Just my 2 cents

Note - a quick review of the plans indicates there was only 1 mg on each side of the stack.

Franz

Anyone want to try to identify any of these officers in this 1941 home movie from Ensign Weeden?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWLLIZ_hVu8

Jeff, I've seen this movie. It's very poignant and moving. As for the officers I really don't know. I know the Admirals at the change of Flag ceremony:
"The last "Change-of-Flag" command ceremony held onboard the ship occurred on January 23 rd, 1941 when Rear Admiral Wilson was relieved by Rear Admiral Isaac Kidd."

Quoted from a web site I found. If you asked me which was which I'd have to have the photo's of both admirals to compare them against.

Franz

Must be Wilson on the left and Kidd on the right.


How about these two?


Also, I often wondered what this structure was that is next to the projection booth and up against barbette #3.


After viewing this film, I now know what it was. Here it is in use.

Jeff, are those speakers? Also is that in the same location as in the Post Pearl Harbor picture or was it moved around for ships functions?

Franz