The Ship Model Forum

Not sure if the interest in Paul Stillwell's book has died down, but if anyone is interested I came across it, for under $60 at:

The Book Depository : https://www.bookdepository.com/Battlesh ... 741&sr=1-2

Thrift Books: https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/battleshi ... q=19748292

David,

Having served on Com 7th Fleet (USS Oklahoma City) for two years, putting the canvas along the rails would have been primarily for aesthetic purposes.

Flagships always wanted to put their best foot forward. To a lesser extent it would have kept blown spray to a minimum on windy days.

I think that's why the ladder going to the quarterdeck had canvas along the rails.

Franz

I just snagged one off of amazon for $53.

_________________
Michael

Love building and CAD modeling WWII Capital Ships

1/1200 Battle of Hampton Roads diorama in progress
1/1200 1945 USS Pennsylvania CAD model in progress

Does anyone have any information on the 1.1 aft director platform? Did it have a railing or was there a splinter screen around it? There are very few 1941 pictures available and those that I have looked at, the platform is hidden behind the gun tub. The pictures I have seen of the Trumpeter model (Jeff's) they look like about 24" thick disks. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Larry

No railing or splinter shield; the installation wasn't complete yet. Just a disk on top of a pole that looks way too thin.

- Sean F.

Thanks Sean. I asked the question because one of the set of plans I am using for my build, showed a railing. I have learned to question these and plans I have.

Larry

That's always the tricky thing about plans, no matter how authoritative they are: There's what was meant to be done, (or how it was meant to be done), which doesn't always match up with what was actually done, for a whole host of reasons. Time limitations, parts not yet available, or even something that looks fine on a sheet of paper not being quite so feasible in 3-dimensional reality! Not to mention the workers preferring to do it a different way (or just flat-out taking shortcuts when no one is looking...)

- Sean F.

For those interested, here is my build log for the CAD to physical model 1/1200 Arizona I'm working on: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=183734&p=771566#p771566

_________________
Michael

Love building and CAD modeling WWII Capital Ships

1/1200 Battle of Hampton Roads diorama in progress
1/1200 1945 USS Pennsylvania CAD model in progress

In looking closely at the bulkheads along the casement guns I came across what look like electrical fixtures. The horizontal one towards the top of the the bulkhead looks like it might be a light fixture. TheVertical fixture repeats across the bulkhead and I have no idea what these are for.

The fixtures in question are circled in black.

Any one have any ideas.

Thanks

Franz

Hi Franz,
They are indeed light fixtures. Arizona had quite a few of them on her bulkheads throughout the 1930's. Not sure if they were still there in 1941. I see no evidence of them post attack. Here is how they looked.

Thanks Jeff, that sure looks like it.

I looked over my Post Pearl Harbor photos and I agree I don't see them, but the photos I have don't show much of the casement bulkheads and part of it is under water too. Also the resolution is not that good. With her still transitioning from peace time to war conditions could you make the case that these fixtures could still have been in place in late '41?

I thought of a way to add this small detail and thought it would add a lot of visual interest to the ship. If the lighting was removed like most of the electrical conduit running on the outsides of the tripod mast legs by 1941 then I would leave them off the model.

Your thoughts?

Thanks again for the clearer photo.

Franz

Well, I can tell you that they were still there after her last major refit in Jan. '41.


You can zoom in with this link.
http://cdn.loc.gov/master/pnp/habshaer/ ... 4207pu.tif

But I don't see any evidence of them post attack.

First off - Jeff great photos! I have the same ones, but not with that resolution!

David you make a good point, but the conduit comes out of the bulkhead to the fixture so even if it was melted or blown off we should still see a little holes along the bulkhead where the conduit came out from the bulkhead for each fixture.

I think I can cover both bases by assuming they were removed at some point when the Arizona went into dry-dock to make repairs from the collision. So if I do my model from when she went into dry-doc I can add them in. Obviously I have no proof of this, but at this point I'm just making a rationalization for including them on the model.

Thanks for all the help from both of you

Franz

One other item missing after the January '41 photo was taken are the range clocks. They are present in that photo, but not in any of the post Pearl Harbor photos.

Ships are always undergoing some type of changes even between major refits.

Franz

I disagree with the statement that the conduits/elec. wiring runs would have been removed due to impending war conditions. Unless equipment was removed or relocated, there would have been no reason to re-route elec. wiring - it would simply be painted over with the prevailing paint scheme.

Your photo is not clear enough to see the wiring that runs up/down the tripod legs of the masts - I see this clearly in the 1942 hi-res PENNSYLVANIA photos and that was well after Pearl Harbor. Wiring is shown just about everywhere painted with the same colors as the equipment it's laying against.

I also wouldn't put too much stock in the post-attack photos of the wreck - we're making assumptions based on what? - almost 80 years after the event? My speculations are that what wasn't blown or burned off, was subsequently mass removed when the salvagers came aboard to strip vital equipment out of the hulk. We don't really know when they or the photographers were on board or who came first unless you went back and somehow found the logs to the ship's access post-7 Dec 41 - if there are such records.

Just an opinion based on 6 years fleet service aboard 2 DDs, 1 DE, & a BB.

I DO think however, that your ideas about adding the wiring where you see it would work perfectly. I wouldn't worry at this point about whether you can prove 100% it was there on Dec. 7, 1941. These kind of details add quite a bit to the overall effect of the model.

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

I agree. If you are ambitious enough to add them, I say go for it. I started to add them to my 1/200 kit but even in that scale they are so damn small so I abandoned it to keep my sanity. It might not be worth it if you are painting her in MS-1 camo. The dark gray (please don’t do Sea Blue ) makes the fixtures even tougher to see with the naked eye.

Photos from August 1941 show the range clocks still on the Pearl Harbor battleships - thus, they were present for at least part of the ships' Ms. 1 period. They seem to have been removed sometime between September & November and there's no sign of them on any ship on Dec. 7. (Their brackets, on the other hand, usually remained in-place)

- Sean F.

Does anybody know if/where a set of plans or drawings for Arizona as she was launched might be found? I've found a number of pictures, but it's hard to capture some of the details around and in between the cage masts. I'm really wanting to build a version of the Arizona around the first 10 years of her existence. I read this thread over a period of time, so if it's already been mentioned I have forgotten where.

_________________
Michael

Love building and CAD modeling WWII Capital Ships

1/1200 Battle of Hampton Roads diorama in progress
1/1200 1945 USS Pennsylvania CAD model in progress

Thank you! I've been hoping to find something better than those. They're definitely better than nothing, but the original drawings are so faint. I've been messing with contrast and other settings to try and pull the drawings out more prominently but haven't been successful so far.

_________________
Michael

Love building and CAD modeling WWII Capital Ships

1/1200 Battle of Hampton Roads diorama in progress
1/1200 1945 USS Pennsylvania CAD model in progress

Thanks to everyone on the input to the wiring. I am adding it to plans for detailing the ship. No I will not be doing the ship in the sea blue but the MS-1.

Thanks again.

Franz