The Ship Model Forum

For what it's worth, these platforms existed on many other ships that had searchlights on platforms. There is a well-known picture of Photographer Ed Steichen aboard CV-16 Lexington on one of her searchlight platforms. I haven't made an opportunity to research them yet but presume they were for maintenance of the mounts or mechanical equipment.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy. I've seen that photo but didn't realize that was where he was standing.

That is damned inconsiderate of you. You should be anticipating our needs!

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Martin wrote -

Well, anticipate this (lol ) -
Those were electric arc light units and as such, I would imagine that the panels are indeed electrical control boxes for the searchlights. That is an interesting photo taken from below. If it were me, I would find some unused PE grating and scratch make those access platforms.

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

I've actually contemplated starting something like a Patreon or GoFundMe to fund ship modeler focused research trips in the past, but it gets complex to figure out how we'd select what and how much time, etc.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Following Jeff Sharp's posts on Oklahoma's rafts, this is what I came up with for locations.

Other than size and number of rafts at each location, did I miss anything?

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Even CB1, Alaska had these sub searchlight platforms. Apparently for servicing the training gear located below the searchlight platform proper.

Going back to the locations of rafts, I've been looking at photos Jeff Sharp posted earlier in this thread, especially these two.

I think I see a second large raft aft of the one Jeff pointed out on the conning tower, perhaps hanging off the superstructure. Any thoughts?

I also think I see a raft, attached horizontally, to the port side of the vegetable locker. Again, anyone have any thoughts on that?


Finally, for the raft on the port side of the conning tower, would it be logical to assume that there'd also be one on the starboard side? Many of the rafts do seem to be symmetrical, with a corresponding raft on the opposite side of the particular ship.

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

I definitely see one in the first photo, vertical. The horizontal one in the second photo is harder to make out, but I can see it, and it also looks as if there's at least one smaller one nested in there. I don't know much about battlewagons, but judging by how many rafts the carriers had strapped to them early-war, I'd bet that anything that 'may' be a raft is indeed a raft.

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We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

I'm having "raft fever"....I think I'm seeing rafts everywhere now.

I see the raft on the conning tower (raft 1) and one just aft of it (raft 2), both vertical, and what "looks" like more rafts amidships?

Raft 1 is the one originally called out on the motion picture booth, but now I think it is actually hanging on the railing just to port of the booth, which is why it appears at an angle.
Raft 2 is on the vegetable locker (horizontal)
Raft 3 is on the director platform on the tripod - the Big 5 carried rafts on their aft cage masts, so this is possible (which makes me think there would be a twin on the other side of the platform).
Then do I see more rafts on the forward superstructure? Maybe the same silhouettes seen in the top photo? Or am I seeing what I "want" to see?

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

EDIT: David, I think you are right about the location of this raft being on the back of the crane.

Using my model as an example, here is where I think I see rafts, with the likely hood of the ones on the forward superstructure and tripod having a twin on the starboard side:

Trying to be as accurate as possible, given the limited evidence we have.

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Trying to figure out the location of the accommodation ladders when stowed. This seems to be the spot for the aft ladders, tied up against the 40' motor boat cradles:

Can't find any photo that show the stowage for the forward ladders. Anyone have any ideas where they stowed them while underway?

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Trying to double check, I feel like a saw a reference to them laying across the deck forward of turret one. But not finding where I saw that so I may be mistaken with another class. Will dig some more.

On a separate note, interested in learning more about Decklights. These are prevalent in the first generation dreadnoughts of the USN, and seem to be have been carried up till at least their rebuilds in WWII. Are they actual lights that illuminate or are they just single skylights? Looking at plans, they do seem to be near crews mess and quarters, the few images I can clearly pick them out shows what looks like a flush porthole, so I am leaning towards the later.

Matt

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In the yards right now:
USS Utah AG-16
On Hold
1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
1/350 Trumpeter Texas with a twist

USS Nevada turret top colors


Quick question: from what I gather, the turret tops for USS Nevada should be red, red, white for turrets 1, 2, and 4, respectively. However, in this photo, taken 3 days after the attack, the tops of turrets 1 and 2 look very different. What gives?

Mike

In some cases it appears that the roof of Turret #1 wasn't painted and just #2 and #4 were. I haven't seen any definitive documentation for this but some photos suggest it for some ships.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Speaking in generalities, of course, with the usual caveats concerning interpretation from black-and-white photos, but: In my experience, the red turret tops usually don't have such bold contrast against a MS. 1 scheme as what we're seeing on turret 2. It's really hard to tell that there's a different color at all for red, blue, and black tops - so much so that it's obvious why so few people even thought there were colored tops at Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7. Only the blatantly obvious white ones really jump out at you (but from a low angle, they are oh so easy to dismiss as sun glare on the turret roof if you don't know what you're looking at). But about that turret two on Nevada: It could be a film type that does render red as lighter than the surrounding colors, and turret 1's roof is 5-D (or 5-S? Was there debate over Nevada in this matter?) I theorize, though, that the paint on turret 2's roof may have burned off, similar to "white" patches seen on her bridgework in the days after the attack.

- Sean F.

Current "state of the research" is messy and undertermined. Ron Smith read a memo to me wherein Admiral Kimmel ordered the battleships to retain enough 5-D for one full repaint of the hull up to the main deck and turn in the rest of their stocks - following this they were to paint areas *as needed* in 5-S or 5-O. This means than an individual gun or bulkhead, say, could be a different color. It makes determining individual ships extremely messy. Ron got tired of the acrimony and shipped a lot of his research to John Snyder and myself when he moved away from archives. He shipped me two boxes and only one arrived.

So, I don't have that memo and it's existence at this point is essentially apocryphal until I can find it again at archives myself. It makes things "messy" for individual ships at the time of the attack. Safest thing to do for now is to paint in standard Measure 1 because we know for a fact the Battleships were painted so in the summer and at least partially through the fall.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hi Mike,
Life photographer Carl Mydans captured color images of the PacFlt in Hawaii in September of 1940. He took a couple of shots of USS Nevada. Here are crops of those shots showing her #2 turret top red but the #1 top is not.





Shortly after these photographs, most of the PacFlt battleships including USS Nevada made their way to Puget Sound for refits.

This next shot is an overhead shot showing the fleet at Puget Sound in November 1940.



All but two battleships have both #1 and #2 turret tops painted to represent their BATDIV. USS Arizona and USS Nevada are the exception in this photograph with only their #2 top painted in the BATDIV color.
Here is a crop of USS Nevada.



After the refits were completed in January 1941, the fleet returned to Hawaii.

On April 1, 1941 a film crew was aboard USS Arizona and filmed BATDIV 1 at sea. They captured footage showing that both USS Arizona and USS Nevada still only had their #2 turret tops painted red.
Here is a still from that footage showing USS Nevada.



At the end of May 1941 (maybe early June) USS Nevada repainted into MS-1 camouflage. Question is did she or did she not get her #1 top painted red at that time?
The photo you posted suggests that she did not have her #1 top painted red. The same question can be asked about USS Arizona, but photos of Arizona on 12/7/41 suggest the opposite for her.

As far as 5-D or 5-S on her, I can't seem to find any evidence of 5-S applied to her in these stills other than the thin strip of 5-S above the newly painted boot topping.













After her repairs were complete and she left for the States then she definitely had 5-S on her.

Here are some color stills of USS Nevada in the late 1930's.