The Ship Model Forum

Yep! You're right.

And I inadvertedly kicked of a new thread on this class... sorry.

But my question seems still valid: any ideas about converting the 1:350 Warspite into any of these R's?


Maarten

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"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

The prospect of converting Academys Warspite to a R class Battleship is certainly floating around my brain,especially after seeing those WW1 photos of Ramilles and Revenge posted by Laurence Batchelor on another site ,wow what a fabulous camouflage patterns!

Cheers Phil

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" If your going though Hell ,keep going!" Winston Churchill

Thanks for your reply, Phil! And I agree very much with you about those dazzle schemes.

I have taken some good looks at the inboard profile of in 'R&R British Battleships of WW2' page 38, and with numbering the frames along the same lines of the QE-class come to the conclusion that the forward main turrets are in the same position relative to the bow on both classes, and the length difference (20 feet) seems to be only amidships. Also the distance between the two turrets either front or rear is 48 feet in all cases. With what I know now the quarterdeck seems to be a bit longer on the R-class, but I'm not completely certain of that yet.

This would mean that shortening the hull at its widest point would be the way to go, and taking out a little sliver at the keel maybe (only for a full hull build). Of course the decks and superstructure must be built up from scratch almost, although many parts, beginning with the turrets, could be used from the kit.

Considering a backdating to WW1 would also entail removing the bulges, that would be quite a challenge for a full hull build but very do-able when building waterline, similar as in you Repulse project, Phil.

Maarten

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

There was a very noticeable difference in the contour of the quarterdecks between the two classes.

Proceeding aft from X-turret barbette, the width of the R-class tapered only moderately compared to the QEs, until the last few meters of hull length at the stern; they were definitely more "blunt" than the latter.

I have found that a much easier R-class conversion can be made from an Iron Duke hull, rather than a QE hull, but I'm not sure if an Iron Duke class model is even available in the current A/B scales.

I work in classic 1:600 scale, where a much better choice of Royal Navy conversion subjects is available by using Airfix kits as bases for the necessary modifications.

FYI,

Dan

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Danny DON'T "waterline"...!

Hi gents, my opinion, for what it worth, is that would be better to build the hull from scratch as I did with HMS Barham, and then use/clone the fittings of HMS Warspite. I think that if you have the skills for modify a QE hull to match a R class, you can scratchbuild it with a sandwitch of balsa ( or other suitable materials ).

I spent some time considering to scratchbuild HMS Royal Oak, then I parked this project for lack of time, but at the moment we have all the fittings necessaire, both in plastic or resin ( as example WEM pom poms ), from 15 inc mounts to 0,50 quad AA guns.
Dino

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http://lsa-space.blogspot.com/

Hi Dan & Dino,

I currently trying to locate a set of plans of the R-class, any recommendations? It seems the two of you have been looking into this much more than I.

Dino, your idea of building a hull from scratch might very well be the way to go (I love your Barham very much!), in particular when building waterline. Personally I prefer full hull builds, and then the balance might be different: for my Rodney indeed I chose to build a hull from scratch (plank on frame, all in Evergreen plastic), and I'm planning to do that for a Vanguard too.

But it's a long and expensive process and if I can avoid it by converting an existing hull, it's worth the consideration: I was delighted to find that ICM's König-class hull (having an error in the quarterdeck, I know that) accepts modification to Bayern, Kaiser and even Helgoland shapes, and I was/am dreaming to do something similar with the QE therefore.

Too bad there isn't a Iron Duke in 1:350 plastic yet on the horizon, it might be easier indeed to use that instead. Of course 1:600 used to be the preferred RN scale for decades thanks to Airfix, but there is a change of wind coming. Airfix(Hornby) acknowledges that too, but they have set their sight to the modern RN first, as they openly told us in a meeting. The only WW2 suggestion I heard them taking seriously is for a Majestic/Colossus class carrier, with its very international post-war potential.

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

I strongly recommend that people interested in the R-class pick up a copy of Burt's soon-to-be-reprinted battleship book, where a lot of attention is paid to these ships, including a list with the differences between the individual ships at several time frames. Plus, there are a few outstanding shots of the late-war R-class vessels included that alone are worth the price of the book.

I haven't spent a lot of time with the plans of these vessels, but there's always the National Maritime Museum. Not expensive. I just ased about HMS Prince of Wales and it's only 517 pounds for the set.....

Maarten, though NMM "as fitted" plans are the best in commerce, in my opinion their price limit the use. I had some quotation for the HMS Fiji ... but I gave up for now.

For 1/350 or smaller I think that Profile Morskie are more than acceptable, and if integrated Raven Roberts and Burt books you can't go too far from the actual ship.

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http://lsa-space.blogspot.com/

...just to add the Profile Morskie plans are available for download here: http://profilemorskie.home.pl/PDF_350_GB.htm there is the Resolution and Royal Oak, the last unique in the class for her smoothly bulged hull.

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http://lsa-space.blogspot.com/

Hi Dino,

Thanks for the hint. I already ordered (and paid) PM's plans of the Resolution last Tuesday, but haven't received anything yet from Poland. Maybe today, maybe tomorrow?

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"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

I'd be most careful with those plans; they have a tendency to 'fill in the blanks' with nonsense.

I can confirm this, an accurate study of the available pictures, and an eye on Raven Roberts profiles should help avoiding the major mistakes, but sometimes, to some questions, there is no answer, and the modeller have to take a decision: to fill the blank or to leave it as it is?

Mr Raven would say if you don't know how it was don't add it, I remember an old post on S.navy board were he said something like this. In my models I accept some little licence here and there.

To come back in topic I think that PM plans could be of some use expecially for the hull lines, if one don't want to dive Royal Oak wreck or don't have the money for NMM plans

Dino

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http://lsa-space.blogspot.com/

Well, the pro's and con's of using those (cheaper) plans versus the NMM plans are of course known and understandable. I fully agree with Raven you should not fill in the blanks; you need to know if your reconstruction is fact-based or fantasy. You cannot untangle the mess afterwards. So, adding a symbol for e.g., a hatch in stead of a hatch in full detail, is more clear. (general arrangement style).

Naturally nearly all models have some license and then filling in the blanks isn't that bad (I have a scale for this ).

Dino and EJ,

Thanks your for the gauging of PM plans versus those from NMM, I think don't need to add anything to that. For my Rodney build I applied exactly the same principles, using firm info that was available to judge whether a certain part of either drawing was credible or pure fantasy.

As I have worked as a draughtsman in aviation I know from first hand that even builder's drawings cannot be believed, as errors are made and not always corrected properly, and some errors are even knowingly maintained, as they are irrelevant on the drawing in question when properly used. We modelers tend to forget that those drawings were not made for us in the first place, so we cannot expect (without checking) that a drawing provides us the correct info WE would like to have...

So careful interpretation remains paramount, and pictures/photographs of the subject will all contibute to fill in the errors and uncertainties in the drawings, to tell us the story we want to portray in our models.

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"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

The 1/700 Samek Royal Oak will be available from Pacific Front Hobbies in a couple of weeks.





Bob Pink.

Quick question, using the Samke or WSW kit of HMS Royal Oak in 1/700 what else member of the HMS Revenge class can be made with little modifications ?
Thanks in advance.

Of the 5 ships, only Ramillies had the same shape hull bulges. However, there were a number of superstructure differences, and I think Ramillies lacked the catapult on X turret.

Hi Dick J
Thanks for info

I've some bad news lads...

It looks like any of you who have built models of the Royal Oak have made a whole series of major errors.

Here is the artwork on the box of a 1/450 scale model of the ship, showing the distinctive Italian flair her designers were famous for:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KOPRO-HMS-Roy ... 4897.l4275

Possibly a long shot here but does anyone know Royal Sovereign's camouflage colours in 1942/43? I know it's a 2 tone scheme with a dark and lighter grey, my thoughts are MS 1 and APC507C.

thanks
Mike

PS the kit is HP's 1/700 Royal Sovereign 1943