The Ship Model Forum

This is a correct decision.
SUVOROV had 20 47-mm guns.



As I know, the capital ships of Russian Navy had no separate dividing strip between a surface and underwater part of the hull.



Yes, it is correct.
Internal partitions of the ships have been painted in white color to increase light exposure.

Thank you Kronma. That is very helpful.

There are open framed bases for the 47mm guns supplied in the etched metal kit. The pictures including those from Darius on the previous page show an upside down, eccentric and flattened cone of plate metal. i plan to make some that look like that.

EDIT- Thanks, Darius. Based on your photo, I took another look at the plastic kit bases and they will do just fine. I will use the PE for the shield and the stock.

Yes Bondman, 47mm gun bases looked like this:

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"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

That's a good photo, although i guess it isn't on a Borodino...Where's it from?
I like the detail with the cut out railing too.
So as I edited my post above- the original plastic kit base looks the best.

It's a fragment of a photo of a beautifully made 1/100 scale model of Slava: http://www.scaleships.biz/eng/sale.html
It shows base of the gun more clearly than anything I could find in the photos of the real ships.

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"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

What about draft marks? There are no decals for them in the kit.

No idea about Suvorov but here are draft marks on Borodino's hull:

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"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

Thank you. Those look sharp and I would like to include them. Hmmm.....
Please, where were those pictures taken? St. P 1904?

Admiralty Shipyard, Saint Petersburg 1901. If you are not familiar with this site: http://tsushima.su/index.php?page=shipsrussiabronebrru it's well worth a look. Plenty of great photos of Russian warships including Borodinos (click on Фотографии and Чертежи и схемы). No photos of Suvorov though...

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"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

This weekend I made steady progress, in between trimming the tree and cooking a couple of good dinners.
The decks are in, along with the various houses and fittings. I used the portholes from the PE set, very nice.

Next up is the boat beams and catwalks, the stacks and start to install rails from the top down. I'm waiting on gun barrels- the turrets may well get plugged in last.

Looks nice Bondoman but is it too late to tell you that ALL of the superstructure (excluding decks) was painted black? Even inner parts of bulwarks.

This is just a digitally colorized version of a well known photo of Orel, but it should give you some idea:

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"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

Thanks Darius, I knew that, although I am not sure if some of the innards on the boat (?) deck weren't white. Some of the pictures seem to show the skid beams for the boats a light color.

I am probably going to repaint the bridge structures tho, wood is a little "out there".
But I'm going a little fanciful, as if she were on an inspection or showing the flag in 1906 etc.

Thanks for looking, too.

Sure! It's your model, have fun with it!

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"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

Hello, All!

cerberusjf ! Again, Thank You very much for help !
I searched My photos of OREL few times and found nothing new on bridges.
About "step" on desk of OREL: it looks like people do not want to discuss it anymore, because "all was already discussed long ago on long-forgotten forums. We have only 2 photos and no new information."
p.s. Of course, it was Gustav . But about manual hoist: different device, same idea.

Bondoman! About SUVOROV with 4 47mm guns: looks like it is written about SLAVA, modernised before Great War.
This model is BORODINO with mistakes, You can not build accurate model of other ship without serious revision, based on good research.

Hi Cerb- I'm able to call her Borodino, except i don't have the name decal. Is there a "short list" of two or three most obvious fixes to make her closer to Suvorov? (A general question for all of you?).

I am sorry to say that the answer is "not really" Bandoman. No two or three fixes will make this model any more "Suvorov like". It's not that there are just some things that are wrong but that almost EVERYTHING is wrong!!!
If you wanted to make something even close to the real Suvorov from Zviezda's kit only hull, ship boats, funnels, main guns and various other small bits and pieces can really be utilized. And even hull has to be modified.

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"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

You're very welcome, Ironclad! Any time.

That's a pity, oh well..


Hi Bondoman

A list of differences makes a long list unfortunately and would include

They had a different shape of pilot house on the forward bridge (e.g. see gmm photoetch)
Suvorov had bulwarks round the forward and aft 6” turrets, Borodino didn’t
Suvorov had curved forward edges to the anchor beds rather than Borodino’s angled edges
They had different arrangement of scuttles along the side of the hull
They had different funnels, Borodino had shorter, slimmer funnels with funnel caps but no steam pipes, Suvorov and the rest of the type had taller, thicker funnels with no caps but with steam pipes.
They had different arrangement of small boats (e.g. a boat suspended by forward casemate each side on Suvorov rather than near the stern on Borodino)
Suvorov had a large vent on the spar deck stretching above the torpedo boats just forward of the aft bridge.
They had different shapes for the forward and aft bridge decks.
They had a slightly different arrangement of 47mm guns
They had a different shape of catwalk
They had a different shape of 6” turrets
They had different paths for the railings on the 6” turret
They had a slightly different shape of 12” turrets
Suvorov’s forward lower bridge met the hull side at a right angle, the aft met the hull with a curve. On Borodino, it was the other way round.
Suvorov had a slightly straighter bow than Borodino, but the kit is probably slightly closer to Suvorov than Borodino
The entry port on the spar deck had a roof on Suvorov, no roof on Borodino
Borodino had round scuttles in the skylights, Suvorov had rectangular ones

The list could go on…. And on……and on…..


A good start is to compare plans of Borodino
http://tsushima.su/uploads/photoarhiv/s ... raw/05.jpg
http://tsushima.su/uploads/photoarhiv/s ... raw/04.jpg

and Suvorov’s very similar sister Slava
http://tsushima.su/uploads/photoarhiv/s ... raw/01.jpg

Suvorov had a straighter bow than Borodino, but the kit is probably slightly closer to Sovorov than Borodino

Yuri Logaziak made a very good attempt at Suvorov here and included many of the corrections listed above.

He had an article listing the changes he made, but it seems to have disappeared now.

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

You could then decide yourself what you want to change (if anything)
But if anyone wants to discuss anything with me, I would prefer an e-mail or p.m.
Thanks
John

If I remember correctly (I only have Borodino) Suvorov's kit includes sprue with alternative funnels but that's VERY small mercy indeed...

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"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

Thanks for all the tips! Borodino she shall be! I've got a friend who's modeling Borodino. I'll see if he can scan the decals, otherwise I'll just finess it.

I've recently gotten the Combrig kits of Suvorov and Orel, to complete a collection of the 4 ships present at Tsushima kitted by them...wow, it's going to take work to get them all built, and Alexandr III re-built more accurately.