Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

[russclark]

hello john,i would like to pick your brain again.hpoe i,m not being a pain but there is lots of differant info and picks of jean bart.which of these pics pic seem right.lower pic shows open space behind director tube. also some pics show 20mm guns one deck down ahead of director tube,some show some other kind of director.my plans show guns . p.s plans from musee de la marine just arrived looks good should help me fiqure things out a bit.

Hi
no problem, not much brains to pick.. the answer is ...it depends on when you are modelling her.. here are two photos of her, one in 1950 and the other 1953. You can se the open area behind the director tube and guns in the 1950 photo (the guns are not present in photos I've seen of her prior to 1949). In 1953 she had changed a lot, the space is filled in, the diractor has changed and she was fitted with her 100mm turrets as well. You can see people around the lower level "director" (I'm not sure what it is, so I'll call it that as well) in the photo, so at this time this level was an open gallery. But in a photo of "Jean Bart" in reserve, there are railings around this "director", suggesting this area around it was boxed in, very like the model in the upper photo.

thanks fore the pics john,i take it that the rebuild was done a bit at a time and the ship was active between jobs. i have a pic of a model from des musees de la marine dated 1953 showing bilge keels and open space on that deck and no guns.i wonder how modelers managed to gather info before the internet it must have been very time consuming.

[cerberusjf]

....

[Jeffcsr]

Hi, The Trumpeter 1/700 Richelieu 1946 is up for pre-order at FreeTimeHobbies and I wanted to know what was the difference between this and the earlier Trumpy 1/700 Richelieu kit?

TIA,
Jeff

[russclark]

Hi, The Trumpeter 1/700 Richelieu 1946 is up for pre-order at FreeTimeHobbies and I wanted to know what was the difference between this and the earlier Trumpy 1/700 Richelieu kit?

TIA,
Jeff

hi jeff,i am not familier with plastic kits at all but j.b is vary differant depending which year you model her.

[Jeffcsr]

I found that Richelieu had gone in for overhaul on Sep. 1945 but find no details of the overhaul. Trumpeter's box art, if accurate, is still too vague to see any differences between the 1943 version.

[russclark]

hi everyone,back at my build again summers over.decking arrived from bluejacket shipcrafters,very quick service.i can,t find dumas book anywhere ,haveing trouble with small details, doors placing, air vents,hose reel placing etc, etc.if anyone has pics i would appreciate if you could e.mail me at r.lclark@telus.net and thanks again john for your help so far.will post some update pics soon.

[russclark]

a question about blast bags,under the raised part is a metal door that swings down.i was wondering if j.b always used the bags or did thay sometimes just close the door. heres 2 pics one bags one door. i now its to differant ships but you never know

[phil]

Camo question.
What were the colours of the 1943-1944 camo scheme. Is the dark colour on the hull navy blue, or is it a grey? Even on the models in the gallery I have trouble identifying the exact shades and colours.
Also, could anybody tell me what time period the colour sceme suggested in the Heller 1/400 kit is appropriate to? And what might be a good reference work for the camo?
Phil

[Gilbert]

Camo question.
What were the colours of the 1943-1944 camo scheme. Is the dark colour on the hull navy blue, or is it a grey? Phil

Richelieu after refit was repainted with a"measure 32", colours were Navy Blue, Haze gray and Light gray for vertical surfaces and Deck Blue for horizontal surfaces

cheers

Gilbert

[Gilbert]

Camo question.
Also, could anybody tell me what time period the colour sceme suggested in the Heller 1/400 kit is appropriate to?

In the Heller 1/400 kit, the colour scheme is a post-war one (late forties, early fifties) with a uniform dark grey for the hull up to the weather deck, all superstructures above being painted in light grey. Please note that by the end of 1951, the ship was painted overall light grey except rangefinders being off-white. This scheme wast the last one for Richelieu.

corresponding colours could be find from WEM colourcoat range - Ref #M07 and #M08.

cheers

Gilbert

[chuck]

a question about blast bags,under the raised part is a metal door that swings down.i was wondering if j.b always used the bags or did thay sometimes just close the door. heres 2 pics one bags one door. i now its to differant ships but you never know

The doors are only used when the ship is in mothball. Whenever the ship is in service and the guns can be called on to elevate and fire, and be exposed to spray while doing these, they would have blast bags fitted.

[russclark]

thanks chuck, i guess i will have to try to make some of blast bags for jean bart.,just about finished her,been trying to stay away from the blast bags as they scare me, turrants are finished except for them.

[phil]

I wonder if somebody could give me some advice about the 1943 camo scheme please. Specifically, what colour/shade of grey was the darker part of the hull? And were there only 2 colours used on the hull?
Also, I wonder if anyone could enlighten me as to just what the date is for the camo scheme in the Heller 1/400 kit?
phil

[peppe]

according to the polish book of maciej sobanski on richelieu class ed. okreti wojenne :
_ttp://www.okretywojenne.pl/ow/katalog/?aid=17&ctid=78
the color are in the caption of the illustration attached (i dont speak the polish )
ciao peppe

[WI_Chris]

according to the polish book of maciej sobanski on richelieu class ed. okreti wojenne :
_ttp://www.okretywojenne.pl/ow/katalog/?aid=17&ctid=78
the color are in the caption of the illustration attached (i dont speak the polish )
ciao peppe

Perhaps I'm going color blind, but I can only see three colors here. 20-b decks, Haze grey and what is supposed to be navy blue, but looks dark grey (to me) for the camo. Where is the light grey?
One way or another, I saved this pic for reference.

[WI_Chris]

Camo question.
What were the colours of the 1943-1944 camo scheme. Is the dark colour on the hull navy blue, or is it a grey? Phil

Richelieu after refit was repainted with a"measure 32", colours were Navy Blue, Haze gray and Light gray for vertical surfaces and Deck Blue for horizontal surfaces

cheers

Gilbert

MS. 32 is navy blue, light grey, and ocean grey... not haze grey.
deck blue and ocean grey on decks.
Was Rich. given leeway on this?
as again, I only see two colors on her.

[Gilbert]

MS. 32 is navy blue, light grey, and ocean grey... not haze grey.
deck blue and ocean grey on decks.
Was Rich. given leeway on this?
as again, I only see two colors on her.

Well, according to Ship Naval Camouflage website, Measure 32 is as follows :

Vertical Surfaces:

Paint all exposed vertical surfaces a pattern of:

Light Gray 5-L.
Ocean Gray 5-O.
Black

Horizontal Surfaces:

Paint all decks and horizontal surfaces a pattern of:

Deck Blue, 20-B.
Ocean Gray 5-O.

Richelieu camouflage pattern has been said to be in Ms 32, according to Robert Dumas in his book "Le Cuirass� Richelieu" but the colours were not all of Ms 32, as they included Haze Grey and Navy Blue. Anyway, it was a very unique pattern and Brooklyn Yard "interpreted" the rules for a foreign ship.

cheers

Gilbert

[Gilbert]

as again, I only see two colors on her.

Here is a camo drawing of her starboard side (I don't have the port side unfortunately)

Hope this helps

Gilbert

[WI_Chris]

as again, I only see two colors on her.

Here is a camo drawing of her starboard side (I don't have the port side unfortunately)

camo110.jpg

Hope this helps

Gilbert

thank Gilbert, it does help a bit, but I still only see two colors really. Light grey for the overall and then navy blue. There is the odd "overspray" looking parts of the camo, but to me they just look like faded-out navy blue.

also, I think I misquoted the Ms.32 above. sorry. you were very correct on that.

What time period had the dark grey camo, as shown by the trumpeter on their paint chart?

[Gilbert]

thank Gilbert, it does help a bit, but I still only see two colors really. Light grey for the overall and then navy blue. There is the odd "overspray" looking parts of the camo, but to me they just look like faded-out navy blue.


What time period had the dark grey camo, as shown by the trumpeter on their paint chart?

Hi "Model citizen",

if you zoom on the camo drawing, you will better see the intermediate colour (Haze Grey) next to the navy blue. On the other hand, please forget about the Trumpeter paint chart which is wrong with the colours and with the pattern. They have mirrorred the port pattern assuming the starboard one was identical, which is totally wrong. Once again, Richelieu had a very unique camouflage with two distinct patterns.

Trying not to get you confused, I have found a model still in progress but showing clearly both sides.

I hope this will help you. Please don't hesitate to ask if you need more information. If I can, I will try to help you.

cheers

Gilbert