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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Does anyone have information on how many and what type of ships boats Arizona would have had as standard compliment over the course of 1941?

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Michael

Love building and CAD modeling WWII Capital Ships

1/1200 Graf Spee model in progress
1/1200 USS Arizona CAD model in progress


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:14 pm 
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http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... 85-2_a.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... 85-3_a.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/BB39/BOGP/


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:47 am 
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I have conflicting information as to how many paravanes the Arizona carried in Dec. of 1941. Anyone have any information?
Thanks .

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:13 pm 
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Hi Larry,
Of all the sources I've seen of her in 1941 prior to the attack including the April 1, 1941 film, the Jan 1941 Puget Sound pic, the November 1941 dry dock pic, and the August 1941 pic. All of them combined show the same thing. There was 1 paravane on the portside #2 barbette and no paravanes on the starboard side #2 barbette. Her plans say she had 3 paravanes on that barbette but I see only 1 in everything I look at.


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 7:41 am 
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Thanks Jeff. Everything I have shows the three, but like you, I couldn't find them in any of the pictures available.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:41 am 
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Yeah, I have no idea how the process worked but it seems to me that in order for it to work you put two paravanes in the water, one on either side of the bow. But maybe not. Maybe all you need is one.


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 11:49 am 
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I have to wonder if there still weren't two-three paravanes onboard, they just are being stowed in a different, difficult to see location. The King Board Mods required several rearrangements.


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 11:23 pm 
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I found the following (I put in quotes) at the below link. It indicates plural paravanes even for warships. I'm betting the other paravanes were probably stored elsewhere while in port.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... ared-35842

"Extensive measures and techniques were developed to counteract the mine threat. The minesweeping vessels normally towed two cables behind them, one to each side. Attached to the cables were paravanes, torpedo-shaped floats, keeping the actual sweeps under water. Along the length of the sweeping cable, a series of cutting blades was attached. When a sweep snagged the mooring cable of a mine, it was pulled along the sweep until one of the cutting blades would sever it, making the mine float up to the surface. At this point, the mine would be exploded by fire from cannon and machine guns. On larger combatant ships, paravanes, rigid metal poles mounting the sweeps, were attached to the bow of the ship, severely limiting the ability to maneuver."

Franz


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:04 pm 
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Rick E Davis wrote:
I have to wonder if there still weren't two-three paravanes onboard, they just are being stowed in a different, difficult to see location. The King Board Mods required several rearrangements.


You would have to believe if there was more than 1 paravane, then logically they would have to be stowed somewhere on the forward deck if not on the #2 barbette. There is not a whole lot of places on the forward deck other than the #2 barbette to put them. The April 1st film gives us great views of the forward deck both port and starboard and there is no paravanes to be seen other than the one on the port side #2 barbette. The boat deck was very crowded with splinter shields and 5" guns. Unless they were stowed by the stack, the boat deck doesn't seem a possibility.
Here is a still of her in 1939 with a paravane on either side of Barbette #2.
Image

April 1, 1941, no paravane on the starboard side barbette:
Image

Port side:
Image

I wonder if there was enough room on the front side of barbette #2 to stow a paravane? I don't know what kind of clearance there was behind turret #1.


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:57 pm 
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unlikely on front side of barbette #2 as depends on how close to barbette face is the paravane mounted for storage.
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... 85-2_a.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:09 pm 
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My reasoning for a relocation of stowage of the paravanes onboard USS ARIZONA is based on several factors;

1) At least two paravanes were needed to perform a "standard" sweep operation (a third would likely be a backup/replacement if one was lost in operation and wouldn't need to be stowed close by).

2) In the 8 November 1941 photo of USS ARIZONA in drydock at PHNY, the image isn't the greatest and the paravanes can't be seen, but it is clear that at least on the starboard side of turret #2, two nested life rafts have been located where her paravane(s) use to be located on the barrette.

Attachment:
zBB39x36crop-8Nov41.jpg
zBB39x36crop-8Nov41.jpg [ 112.82 KiB | Viewed 255 times ]


3) In photos of her sister, USS PENNSYLVANIA, during the 1930's into WWII, she stowed her paravanes on the FRONT of turret #2's barrette.

Cropped view from a photo dated August 1935
Attachment:
zBB38x32crop-Aug35.jpg
zBB38x32crop-Aug35.jpg [ 125.76 KiB | Viewed 255 times ]


Cropped view from photo dated 6 December 1943
Attachment:
zBB38x57bCrop-6Dec43.jpg
zBB38x57bCrop-6Dec43.jpg [ 119.62 KiB | Viewed 255 times ]


I have no idea IF USS ARIZONA relocated stowage of her paravanes to forward of turret #2 on the barrette, or perhaps somewhere else onboard the ship. I'm just about certain she had two or three of them onboard as part of her standard equipment. I don't have many images of USS ARIZONA immediately prior to the Attack on 7 December 1941. A general lack of photos of her and much of the USN Pacific Fleet in the Summer-Fall of 1941 (due to restrictions on photography in general) that causes these questions.


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:09 pm 
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Posts: 100
I just wanted to take a moment out of my Memorial Day to remember all those that have given the full measure in the defense of our great country and especially remember all those those that perished on the USS Arizona.

Everyone have a great Memorial Day!

Franz


Attachments:
NH 82742-3.jpg
NH 82742-3.jpg [ 303.44 KiB | Viewed 181 times ]
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