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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:26 am 
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Maybe this could be of some help in figuring out how and where the cables are laid out.

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/we ... ussing.htm


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:06 pm 
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I have finally decided how I’m going to run the degaussing cables, but first I want to thank each and every one you who responded to my query. You guys are extraordinary in your efforts in getting to the facts.
I’m starting with three lines at the bow, coming out of the deck as shown on Franz’s drawing. They will head aft bundled until they get to the area of the observation platform where they will fan out as Jeff’s picture on page 101 of the forum shows and his suggested reason for it. They will come back together and turn into a single cable at the open chock just before the deck extension platform. It will then enter the deck at the point indicated in Hank’s photo. It will come out of the bulwark at a point about one third of the way down and curve towards the aft deck as shown in Hank’s “smoking gun “ picture. From there it will go aft to the open chock just before the #3 barbette and change back to three cables again at the point shown in Jeff’s picture. The three cables will run to the aft end and fan out again just before they enter the deck as indicated on Franz’s drawing.
I based my conclusions on all the pictures mentioned above and others of the Pennsy on the Nav Source website and also Jon's article on degaussing cables, which might explain why a one and three cable system existed. There were different systems for fore and aft and also one for amidships.
As you can see this was a total group effort and if I failed to mention anyone, I humbly apologize. It was an oversight. If you don’t agree with my findings and feel there was something different, please let me know.
Thank you so much.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:49 pm 
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Jon C Ryckert wrote:
Maybe this could be of some help in figuring out how and where the cables are laid out.

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/we ... ussing.htm

Thanks Jon! That helps to explain a lot of what we are seeing. Now we know the other two cables just didn’t stop. They went into the deck and connected to the other side. It makes sense now why we saw the cables lay out just past the #2 turret in the photo I posted earlier. The cables needed to go just far enough aft to clear the back end of Barbette #2 when crossing to the other side.
Good stuff! Thanks buddy! Good to hear from you again!


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:49 am 
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Larry, that sounds like a plan to me. With the information all of us have pieced together I think it is as valid as any other possible option. I think Jeff is correct about the cables flattening out prior to the observation platform and could possibly do the same where the entry ports are put in place when at anchor.

We do need to be careful about over thinking this too as the following photos show the degaussing cable layouts changed over time. The first photo was Jeff's showing the cabling following along the deck edge inboard of the railings(I'm assuming this was Arizona - Jeff please correct me if I'm wrong). The other photo shows the cabling on the USS Pennsylvania (taken post Pearl Harbor -1942) going outboard of the deck edge in two places on the photo (Circled). It's not really important that they may be different ships or at different times, the point is that there are differences. Finally if you look at photos of the Pennsylvania later in the war she no longer shows any degaussing cables on the deck at all. I'm betting by then they had time to rout them all below deck and get rid of the clutter they caused being on the deck.

As for me I plan to follow close to what you are doing except I plan on keeping a 3 cable grouping before and after the flattening out and before and after they go into the deck for the break. My reasoning for this is as much for aesthetics and consistency than for any other reason. Again either of our plans or Jeff's implementation based on what he knew at the time make for a more accurate model than any without the degaussing cables.

I do reserve the right to change my plan based on any other new information that may come to light or at least until I implement it!

Franz


Attachments:
File comment: Jeff's Photo showing cabling running along the deck edge inboard of the railings.
Screen Shot 2018-04-01 at 2.04.53 PM_zpsfxn7ae3l (1).png
Screen Shot 2018-04-01 at 2.04.53 PM_zpsfxn7ae3l (1).png [ 294.35 KiB | Viewed 462 times ]
File comment: USS Pennsylvania in 1942 showing cabling going outboard of the railing in two spots (circled).
DegaussingCablesRunningOutboardOfRailings2.jpg
DegaussingCablesRunningOutboardOfRailings2.jpg [ 192.42 KiB | Viewed 462 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:10 am 
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After looking at all these pictures of the Pennsy I noticed this white object by the Mainmast and the veggie locker. I was wondering if it might be that same object that I was asking about on the Arizona, although it looks like it's upside down compared to the Arizona.

Larry
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013839a.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Larry, my 2 cents worth:

It's on the opposite side from the Arizona photo, this photo was from 1942, it was probably added after the ship was painted (I can't believe they would leave it white) and it's on the Pennsylvania. It also seems it was installed fairly recently relative to the photo.

Finally I didn't find any photos between this in port period and when they finally removed the main top and replaced it with a mast carrying radar. So I wasn't able to determine if it was a temporary change during the in port period or remained till the next major changes to the ship.

I still stand by my research on the Arizona at the time of Pearl Harbor.

Franz


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Here are a couple more pics of the degaussing cable on the starboard side showing where it entered the deck just before the break.
Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:28 pm 
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Jeff,

Really good find! I've just added these to my collection of degaussing cable photos.

Franz


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Well I've finally scraped together funds to take the dive and start acquiring Items for my build of the Arizona. Obviously there is only one choice for the Arizona (non-rc version). I have enough other funds to obtain the KA Models Deluxe Accessory Pack for 1/200 Trumpeter Arizona(comes with a deck) and the WEM Photo etch kit that has the keel templates. Once I get more funds I still want to get the KA Models plus pack for the kit and then some specific items off of Shapeways such as the anchor chains.

I'm torn between getting the kit and PE that I can now or wait till the Christmas season approaches and things might go on sale. The problem is most of these items are made in China and we all know how trade is going with them right now.

I'm leaning towards getting the Kit and PE sets that I have funds for now.

I'm soliciting input from anyone as to what they think of my plan.

Note: I do not intend to populate my model with scale sailors that's why no mention of these sets.

Thanks for any feedback.

Franz


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Posts: 1916
Franz, if you live in the States then get it now as Trump will be putting tarrifs on all products made in China inbound to the US.


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:53 am 
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Okay Guys,
Here I go again with a question.
Did the antennae tower on top of the veggie locker exist in 1941?
I'll cite the two photos of her that I have used before as references.

http://navsource.org/archives/01/039/013933v.jpg In this one taken in 1940, it doesn't seem to be there.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013921a.jpg In this 1941 photo, it looks to be the tower in front of the starboard tripod mast support leg.
What do you think?

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:40 pm 
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I can see 2 cables hanging down between the port & starboard mast legs but no antenna tower. between the starboard & center mast legs I see the ladder for the starboard boat crane as there is 1 on the port crane.


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Larry,
I've looked at one of my post Pearl Harbor photos and The Antenna tower is definitely there. One of the best photos of it and of how the antenna wires go into it is from when the ship was first modernized. It is one of 3 or 4 photos in Navsource that are one right after the other showing her 30's modernization.
http://navsource.org/archives/01/013951a.jpg

I think Jeff in his build log goes into some detail on how the various antenna towers were rigged and he includes the one in question.

The first photo your using is much grainier and I just think it may be getting lost in the clutter. You can barely make out the lines to the the yardarms and none of the antenna wires show up. It is amazing though that I can make out two of the speakers for the ships 1mc. The nearer one is on a vent stack near Turret 3 and the other is a black dot on the support column for the director on the bridge.

Franz


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Franz,
If would have taken the time to look at the 1941 General Arrangement plans, I would have seen it. It definitely is there.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:51 pm 
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:wave_1:

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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Jeff, what size wires did you use for the degaussing cables? Would that gauge still work adding a 3rd wire on top of the two?

This brings up the general question of how you gauged the size of things you added i.e. the aircraft fuel line on the side of the hull. What did you use as a guide for how large things should be when making scratch changes?

I tried looking in your build log, but it's so extensive I could very well have missed these points.

Thanks.

Franz


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:03 pm 
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I don't know about Jeff, but I used .015 copper wire for all three cables and .025 styrene rod for the single one. In my scale 1/192, the .015 equates to 3". I used the .015 diameter in spring steel for the gas line.
I just try and judge the sizes based on photographs using people as a comparison. I always go smaller in size rather than making something too large to the point of looking odd.
I will be interested to see in what Jeff has to say as he certainly is the guru on building the Arizona.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Hi Guys,
You tested my memory banks so I had to go and size it up. I used .015 steel rod for the aviation line and .015 styrene for the degaussing cables. With the way I modified my chocks, I still have enough room to add that third cable to my build. I too just eyed the size for both. No exact science, it just looked right to me. I would not go any thicker than .015 for either if you are doing 1/200 scale.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Thank you both Larry and Jeff for the feedback. I will go with your judgement on this. Good to know that the chocks will fit the 3rd wire as I plan to modify the chocks the same way you did Jeff. Here's only hoping I can execute it close to how well you did.

As for judging size in general I was thinking of using the same approach by comparing to a person. I feel better knowing this approach is used by the both of you.

I should be getting the kit this Thursday. (Anticipation is building) :-)

Thanks again for the information.

Franz


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:18 am 
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Is there any evidence that the bolted plate on the Arizona, like the one shown in this early picture of the Pennsy, was covered with teak decking in later refits? I haven't found any in my limited resources. I have completed planking the upper the deck and am now working on the main deck, which raises the above question.

Larry

http://navsource.org/archives/01/038/013850e.jpg


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