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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:11 am 
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Quick question: did all three sisters have the same exact camouflage scheme during the Battle for the Strait of Bonifacio? The air attack where Roma was sunk?

Or did they each have individual alterations to the camo scheme? Just wondering which sisters had the barber pole stripes at BOTH the bow and stern at the time.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:32 pm 
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Quick answer: no. In fact, the three had three radically different camo scheme since 1942. None had the air-recognition stripes at both the bow and stern, this was just for Littorio and IIRC Vittorio Veneto in 1941. Since there were each day less axis planes overhead, RM was beginning to cut back on the high-visibility stripes.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:13 pm 
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Secondo wrote:
Quick answer: no. In fact, the three had three radically different camo scheme since 1942. None had the air-recognition stripes at both the bow and stern, this was just for Littorio and IIRC Vittorio Veneto in 1941. Since there were each day less axis planes overhead, RM was beginning to cut back on the high-visibility stripes.


So the Trumpeter box art on the Roma kit that depicts her with air recognition stripes is supposed to depict her from before the Battle of the Strait of Bonifacio?

So was there ever a time when all 3 had the exact same paint scheme? Around 1942 when Roma was commissioned?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:04 pm 
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CCGSailor wrote:
So the Trumpeter box art on the Roma kit that depicts her with air recognition stripes is supposed to depict her from before the Battle of the Strait of Bonifacio?

At the time of her loss, Roma had stripes on her bow, and only on her bow. The other two ships in the class no longer had any stripes at this time.

CCGSailor wrote:
So was there ever a time when all 3 had the exact same paint scheme? Around 1942 when Roma was commissioned?

No. Never.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:41 am 
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CCGSailor wrote:
Secondo wrote:
Quick answer: no. In fact, the three had three radically different camo scheme since 1942. None had the air-recognition stripes at both the bow and stern, this was just for Littorio and IIRC Vittorio Veneto in 1941. Since there were each day less axis planes overhead, RM was beginning to cut back on the high-visibility stripes.


So the Trumpeter box art on the Roma kit that depicts her with air recognition stripes is supposed to depict her from before the Battle of the Strait of Bonifacio?

So was there ever a time when all 3 had the exact same paint scheme? Around 1942 when Roma was commissioned?


I think, that only Roma has stripes forward A turret in septembre 43. Please check this:


viewtopic.php?f=47&t=14016&start=380#p488623

Giampiero is probably the best expert about Littorio Class

They has never the same scheme. Only Littorio and Vittorio early at war were painted overall light grey "grigio chiaro cenerino"


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:00 pm 
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just some dude wrote:

At the time of her loss, Roma had stripes on her bow, and only on her bow. The other two ships in the class no longer had any stripes at this time.


Okay. then why does Joe Simon's 1943 Vittorio Veneto have bow stripes?

Model Ships gallery link: Joe Simon's 1943 Vittorio Veneto

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:42 pm 
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CCGSailor wrote:

Okay. then why does Joe Simon's 1943 Vittorio Veneto have bow stripes?


Well, if someone painted a model of it like that, then it must be true! Would you like to see my model of Vittorio Veneto in 1943 without the stripes? :cool_2:

Littorio and Vittorio Veneto lost their stripes in late 1942 or early 1943. I do not know the exact dates, so it might be possible that Veneto had stripes early in 1943 (but check out page 17 of this thread).

If you get your hands on a copy of "The Littorio Class" by Bagnasco and De Toro, you will see photos of Littorio and Veneto in their late war camo without stripes. I researched this because I sooooo wanted to paint Roma in her camo without the stripes, and I was encouraged to find the other 2 ships in their late war camo without the stripes, but all the photos I could find of Roma with her camo had the stripes (including a photo taken from a German bomber while bombing Roma!). In SEPTEMBER 1943, Roma had stripes, but the other 2 did not.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Keep in mind that ship modelling is not like academia - just because a model has been published in our (or any) gallery, it doesn't mean it's gone through any kind of rigorous research on the part of the builder, unlike (hopefully) a paper that's been published in an academic journal.

Unless you're dealing with a subject that has nearly no available primary sources, or you know you can trust the modeler to do accurate research, never use someone else's model as a reference.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:40 pm 
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Could one use this Eduard Roma 1943 PE set to bring a Trumpeter Littorio kit I have up to 1943 standards? Or the differences between the 2 sisters would mean buying that set is not worth it?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:51 pm 
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Compare the PE set with a set of plans and see if it will. I have a set of 1/72 Vittorio Veneto in 1943 so would show easily what she had/ didn't have.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:19 am 
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The differences between the sisters were only structural (bow and bridge shape, position of portholes, light AA guns) so any PE set for one of them should fit the others. My only gripe about Eduard's set is that it doesn't seems to be very comprehensive - I don't see the radar antennas, for instance.
You may drop a line to Giampiero (owner of Regia Marina MAS) and ask him if his set AF 075 (1/700, for Veneto and Littorio) has the optional parts needed for a 1943 version.
http://www.regiamarinamas.net/id177.htm

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:00 pm 
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A big THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I am just starting the 1/700 Trumpeter Vittorio Veneto as she was when Italy entered the war, June 1940. Without this thread and an e-mail from Antonio Bonomi :wave_1: I would be lost.
Wrong AA, wrong boats ... you know the rest if you know the thread.
Helping each other is what makes this site so great.
Harold

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:16 am 
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don't know if this has been noticed before (too many posts to read) but looks like Master Models misunderstood a mount (1:350 scale) :

they present the single tube mounts being 20mm guns but these actually are 37mm/54.

so for piece G20, use 37mm replacement barrels (as for pieces G3/G7 (twin 37mm))
and use 20mm barrels only for piece G21 (twin 20mm)

here is a picture of their 20mm barrels, showing the single mount with wrong tube

and below is the real single 37mm


Attachments:
20mmmaster.jpg
20mmmaster.jpg [ 15.31 KiB | Viewed 1105 times ]
index.jpg
index.jpg [ 6.05 KiB | Viewed 1105 times ]

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 Post subject: Littorio at 2nd Sirte
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:38 am 
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Mi scusi/Excuse me all,

Having read as much of this thread as I could, I am confused by what I found so far.

I have a 1/700 Trumpeter Littorio kit and I am trying to figure out how to paint her in her paint scheme during the March 1942 2nd Battle of Sirte.

However, these two previous posts seem to conflict. The first post seems to show that Littorio had no bow stripes during that battle, whereas, this 2nd post further below shows that between March 1941 to April 1942, she had forward stripes.

Which was it really?

A big GRAZIE/THANKS in advance to anyone who could clear things up.

Giampiero wrote:
Littorio:Image


Please look at the 3rd deck diagram below
Giampiero wrote:
Image

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 10:47 am 
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Timmy C wrote:
Keep in mind that ship modelling is not like academia - just because a model has been published in our (or any) gallery, it doesn't mean it's gone through any kind of rigorous research on the part of the builder, unlike (hopefully) a paper that's been published in an academic journal.

Unless you're dealing with a subject that has nearly no available primary sources, or you know you can trust the modeler to do accurate research, never use someone else's model as a reference.


LOL.That's all I've been using as references.Kinda irritating since no two are the same.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:15 am 
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Hi ,

When there was the Second Battle of Sirte was the Littorio in Taranto for the change of camouflage, and participated Second Battle of Sirte with the camouflage changed only on superstructures. I have a picture as it is coming from the port of Taranto and not there are strips on the bow

Ciao Giampiero


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 10:05 pm 
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Giampiero wrote:
Hi ,

When there was the Second Battle of Sirte was the Littorio in Taranto for the change of camouflage, and participated Second Battle of Sirte with the camouflage changed only on superstructures. I have a picture as it is coming from the port of Taranto and not there are strips on the bow

Ciao Giampiero


Grazie. So essentially the bow stripes were repainted after the battle?

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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 8:13 am 
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Ciao ,

Yes,

:wave_1: Giampiero


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:46 pm 
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rvuorenr wrote:
I can't remember where did I find it, but someone recommended the following Tamiya colours, which I have used in my build and they seem to be very good match:
XF-24 Dark Grey (for the camo)
XF-19 Sky Grey (light gray to be used everywhere)
XF-75 IJN Gray (for the deck)
XF-7 Flat red and XF-2 Flat white for the stripes


What about Tamiya spray paints Ocean Gray AS31? Or Light Grey AS-16?

Which of these 2 is closer to the actual Italian colours?

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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:52 pm 
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I have a few more questions: are the colours for the 2nd Sirte camo, reproduced below, just black and (RM) grey? Which Tamiya spray paint would then be closest to the grey used in the paint scheme below?

Image

Also, upon looking at various pictures of other people's models throughout this thread, I get the impression that most of you have used 3-bar railings for PE, such as in the picture below. Is this Eduard 3-bar chain railings set (link) the closest to the railings below? Or is it the 3-bar long railings set from Eduard?

I just wanted to make sure.

Image

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