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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:15 pm 
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If the Anchor Crane was similar to Schleswig-Holstein then tale a look at the 1/70th scale model on this link:

https://www.der-lustige-modellbauer.com ... stein-1-70

I suspect SMS Deutschland may have had a different crane. In which case I have no info on that ship other than the usual Photographs.

This German Modeler has a 1/70 scale set of plans. I have never seen plans of the Anchor crane so short of buying a set of 1/70th plans from Germany, maybe this example will get you started.

He allows his photos to be reproduced by his Friends according to his hosting site.

Image
Perhaps the size can be deduced from an overhead of the bow of S-H:

Image


Last edited by Nino on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:28 pm 
Hi everybody,

This is my first post to the forum and I realize that this is a rather old thread. I recently purchased Trumpeter's 1908 version of the Schleswig-Holstein and am quite enjoying it so far. In preparation for the build, I purchased a used copy of Linienschiff Schleswig-Holstein: Flottendients in drei Marinen by Willi Schultz, which I can heartily recommend as a reference.

The author briefly served on the Schleswig-Holstein for six weeks or so prior to its sinking. In addition to being able to provided a detailed, first-hand account of the ship's demise, it's clear from the rest of the book that he had significant contact with other veterans of the ship who had served throughout the 20's and 30's He also draws heavily upon other primary sources, primarily archival records and the ship's logs. The book has a very interesting collection of photographs (at least some of which from private collections), but it rather sparse of technical drawings and plans. Schultz does provided, a detailed account of pretty much everything that happened to the ship from what changes were made to the layout to which buoy it was anchored at at the beginning of a particular voyage.

If there are any lingering questions about modernizations/changes to the ship and when they were made, I'd be happy to look in the book, see what information is provided, and post the relevant passages in both German and English.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:42 am 
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That’s great, can you confirm the AAA layout for September 39, as discussed, and also the armaments and locations at the end of the war when you served? Thanks again Dan


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:20 pm 
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Sure! It's probably just as easy to give a complete accounting of the ship's armament over time. The as-built specifications are well established, so we'll start in 1916:

July 12th, 1916:

2 x Anti-Airship 88mm L/45 mounted as replacements for 2x 88mm L/35.

These are the longer-barrelled 88mm weapons in high-angle mounts with gunshield that served aboard most of the dreadnaughts and were also employed provisionally on a number of ships of the Reichsmarine/Kriegsmarine, such as the K-Class cruisers.

October 9th, 1917
Removal of all 170 mm SK L/40 cannons

October 26th, 1917
Removal of all 28 cm SK L/40 and 2 x 88 mm SK L/35

September 11th, 1918
Addition of 6 x 105 mm U-and-Torpedoboat L/45 guns
Addition of 4 88 mm SK L/30 guns

1925-1926
Underwater torpedo tubes removed and replacement with traversable torpedo tubes port and starboard on the aft outer deck (50cm tube). A later passage implies that there were 4 total tubes, although it's unclear as two how exactly they were configured

4 x 28cm SK L/40 (main battery)
14 x 15 cm SK L/45 C 13
4 x 88mm L/45 C 13

September 1930 to 11/11/30

Removal of 2 x 150mm SK L/45 aft (such that only 12 remained)

January 11th 1936 - March 16th 1936

Removal of 2x 150mm SK L/45 on either side of the command bridge.
Installation of 4x anti-aircraft machine guns (type not specified)

August 23rd, 1939

Addition of 1x 20mm Flak 38 (Vierling/Quadruple Mount). This was placed on the boat deck.
1 x 2 cm Flak 38
6 machine guns (the text does not say that they were mounted but rather "brought on board")

The AA weapons on 9/1/39 would have therefore been the Flak 38 in the single mount previously illustrated on this thread, a Flakvierling on the boat deck, the 4x 88mm L/45 guns in high-angle mounts that were installed in 1926, and possibly the 4x anti-aircraft machine guns of an unspecified type that were outfitted in 1936.

June 1940

Partial removal of the 10x 150mm SK L/45, which are used on the HSK (Hilfskreuzer/Auxiliary Cruiser) 1 Orion and HSK 3 Widder

August 29th, 1940

Removal of the remaining 88mm and 20mm AA guns and the remaining 150mm SK L/45

May 1941
Installation of 4x88mm (L/45, C 13), 2 x 37mm (twin mount, so four total barrels), 3x 20mm (single mount) and 4 anti-aircraft machine guns.

Beginning on October 29th, 1944, work began to refit the ship as a convoy escort. Planned work included:

Overhauling of the engines
new electrically-driven flood control pumps
a new radio transformer
new turbo electrical generators
a new gyrocompass
some new fire control devices
a new 3m and 5m rangefinder
a new radar apparatus
a new degaussing coil
cleaning of the underside of the ship's hull

Planned armament included:
4 new 280mm main artillery barrels

replacement of the 4 x 88mm L/45 with 2 x 105mm L/45 SK C/32 g.E. (große Erhöhung/high elevation). I interpret the text to mean a single twin mount.

4 x 105mm L/65 SK C/33 in 2 twin mounts (C/31 style)

10 x 40mm L/60 Bofors in single mounts

3 x 37mm L/83 C/30 in double mounts

26 x 20 mm L/65 C/30 as well as C38 in quadruple, double, and single mounts.

Regarding the 1944 AA weaponry, Schultz notes:

Bis heute is strittig, ob zum Zeitpunkt des Luftangriffs am 18.12 1944 all vorgesehenen Fla-Waffen einschließlich 10,5cm an Bord waren. Offensichtlich wurden zur Umrüstung alle verfügbaren Fla-Waffen herangezogen, bedingt durch immer größere Ausfälle in der Rüstungsindustrie.
Up until today (1990 was the date of publication) it is debatable as to whether all of the planned anti-aircraft weapons, including the 105mm weapons, were on board at the time of the air attack on 12/18/1944. Obviously all available [i.e. a hodge-podge of equipment] weapons were incorporated into the refit, as necessitated by ever-larger disruptions to the armaments industry.

Schultz provides a sketch from a Dr. Rohwer as to the planned location of the armaments. It is too big to upload here (max size, 400 KB), but if you have any ideas about how to overcome that, I'ld be happy to post it and/or e-mail it to you


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:25 pm 
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I was able to make the picture of the aforementioned sketch smaller. Here it is.


Attachments:
Armament 1944 smaller sized file.jpg
Armament 1944 smaller sized file.jpg [ 128.28 KiB | Viewed 422 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:49 pm 
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That is very helpfull, as long as your available, did SH have the camo scheme with the interesting semi round shapes on the hull or was that Schleisen, and was it on the ship at the end, as hopefully you may remember the colors?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:50 pm 
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I Scouting Group wrote:
Hi everybody,

...
If there are any lingering questions about modernization/changes to the ship and when they were made, I'd be happy to look in the book, see what information is provided, and post the relevant passages in both German and English.


You have joined at the right time.
The book you have mentioned was only available direct from Germany when I was looking for references. Shipping expense was too high for me so I am glad you have offered your assistance to review it.

As Dan has mentioned, many of the members here and on other forums have asked about this Ship. Unfortunately the details of the changes to the Schleswig-Holstein after 1941 are not well documented.

As modelers I suppose we would be most interested in knowing any further changes to the ship later in the War. Perhaps the most asked question has been what AA guns were installed, where were they located, and when were they installed. Information on S-H's last years of the War would be very helpful.

(Some other examples: Radar, Camouflage, 15.0cm gun removal, main guns replaced, damage, Ice breaker activities, changes to Superstructure/ Bridge, etc...)

I hope I have not requested too much. I had some info based on another crewman's experience but he was on an 8.8cm gun crew and had no reference to any of the 2.0cm gun locations except for those located near the Boat cranes. I believe he was transferred off by 1940. (Edit: Crewman was Hermann Gerdau)

Take a look at the previous posts including the link I posted on the 1/70th scale model. That model may have a few things wrong but overall it is a beautiful model.


You made a good choice on the 1908 version. The 1908 version is really nice. I can't find any fault with it. Trumpeters "1936" kit leaves a bit to be desired as you have probably read.

Nochmals vielen Dank für Ihren Beitritt. ( Thanks again for joining)

Nino (Jim Margerum)


P.S. Check with one of the moderators to see if photos from the book may be posted. Fair Use is usually allowed provided you give credit to the copyright holder and author of the photo unless there are restrictions specific to those photos. Check first.


Last edited by Nino on Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:51 pm 
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It is currently thought it was light grey, dark grey and green?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:56 am 
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Maybe the best place to start is with a general timeline of the ship’s activities from late 1941 onward:

June 1941

On 6/12/41, commanding officer Kapitän zur See Hennecke was informed that Schleswig-Holstein’s assignment during the upcoming hostilities against the Soviet Union would be to assume a position in the Øresund straight between Denmark and Sweden to prevent a breakout of Soviet naval forces into the open ocean. The ship was, in his opinion, rather ill-suited to this task because in addition to the SA (schwere Artillerie – heavy artillery/main battery), the ship’s only rapid-fire weapons consisted of the two 37mm twin-Flak and the four 88mm L/45 C13, none of which being especially well positioned to engage surface targets. Of additional concern was that with the ship anchored, it was conceivable that only one of the main battery turrets would be able to fire. Should this problem have presented itself, the plan was to attempt to rotate the ship while still anchored into a better firing arc for the turrets.

September 1941

No Soviet forces attempted to break out of the Baltic during Operation Barbarossa and the ship set sail for Copenhagen on 9/5/41. Some damage to one of the screws was discovered during the trip, and on 10/11 the ship docked in Gotenhafen for repairs. On 10/22, the ship then sailed to Kiel.

January 1942

The ship was ordered to assist in the efforts to maintain a free passage through the ice for supply ships servicing the northernmost section of the Eastern Front, and, in an emergency, to serve as a floating battery in support of land forces.

During the first icebreaking operation of 1942, the ship sustained a mine hit underneath the forward boiler rooms. A distress call was put out. The icebreaker Stettin, which was coaling in Riga, responds. When it arrived, it found that the forward section of the ship was underwater up to just below the anchor hawse with the stern raised out of the water by a corresponding amount.
The large naval icebreaker Castor joined the rescue operation shortly thereafter, and together the two ships helped pump at least 500T of water out of the Schleswig-Holstein. The ship was taken in tow to Danzig for temporary repairs.

May 1942

The ship sails from Danzig to Kriegsmarinewerft Wilhelmshaven for permanent repairs. It does not sound as if any modifications were made to the ship at this time beyond repairing the mine damage. The ship then returned to Gotenhafen and served the remainder of 1942 as a training and accommodation ship for the helmsman school at Gotenhafen.

March 1943

The ship was deactivated following Hitler’s decision to deactivate the bulk of the surface fleet due to his anger at the outcome of the Battle of the Barents Sea. The ship therefore spent the rest of 1943 as a barracks ship.
February 1944

Because Schleswig-Holstein retained four coal-fired boilers (not the original boilers, but improved boilers that were installed during the 1925-26 refit), it was reactivated as a cadet training ship, with the first of a new crew arriving in early February. The ship had fallen into a somewhat decrepit state and much of February was spent on cleaning and basic maintenance.

Spring-Summer 1944

The ship raised steam and moved for the first time under its own power again on 3/9/44. Training cruises in the Baltic Sea resumed shortly thereafter. As best as I can tell, the ship was in the same configuration that it had been in 1941, namely with the main battery intact, and with an armament of 4x 88mm L/45 C13 as well as two twin-37mm Flak, and 3x 20mm Flak.
The ship conducted target practice with sub-caliber shells on 5/12. On 5/16, the ship accidentally lost on of its anchors as well as 120m of chain due to the water in the harbor being deeper than expected. After numerous attempts and considerable teasing from the crews of others ships, divers were able to salvage the lost anchor and chain on 5/22
Full-caliber target practice took place on 6/12.

Refit as a convoy escort, September – December 1944

In the aftermath of Operation Bagration in June 1944, Army Group North became trapped in the so-called “Courland Pocket”. Dönitz, among others, advocated that Army Group North hold this position so that that Baltic could continue to be used as a training ground for U-Boat crews.
In the mid-late summer and fall of 1944, some of the remaining heavy units of the Kriegsmarine provided artillery support to land forces along the Baltic Coast. Prinz Eugen, in particular, was able to render tactically-important fire support.

In light of these successes and because of the need to keep the Courland Pocket supplied by sea, a decision was made to refit the Schleswig-Holstein as a convoy escort ship as mentioned in my previous post. It was expected to use a heavily augmented AA armament to protect supply ships and transports from aerial attack, as well as provide fire support to ground forces.
The ship docked at Deutsche Werke on 9/25/44 to begin the refit process. I’ve cataloged the planned alterations above. Of these, augmentation and modernization of the AA armament and replacement of all four main battery barrels were deemed the most important.

Newly joined members of the crew assisted in the refit efforts, and the ship was scheduled to be ready for service on 12/23/1944.

This never happened, of course, because the ship was effectively sunk after sustaining three bomb hits on the evening of 12/18/44 in a large RAF air raid that destroyed or damaged several other vessels.

As mentioned above, it’s not clear whether all of the planned modifications were completed or whether all of the new anti-aircraft weapons were aboard at the time of the sinking. The sketch I had previously posted indicates the probable location of much of the new AA armament, but I have no information about where the numerous 40mm Bofors guns would have gone.
Barring the discovery of some other source, it may not be possible to model the ship exactly as it looked on 12/18. That said, two boilers were already lit to generate steam to test the new turbo-electric generators, and sea trials were planned to commence sometime before the ship was supposed to resume active service five days later. It’s therefore likely that most of the planned modifications had been completed at the time of sinking.

It is also worth mentioning that none of the ships AA guns were operational at the time of the air raid no ammunition was aboard. Because of this, on the senior officers, the watch officers, the flood-and-damage control personnel and various technical personnel remained aboard the ship during the air raid, with the remainder of the crew taking cover in trenches that had been dug alongside the pier.

Ship’s Paint and Color Schemes

Photographs from 1942 and the spring and summer of 1944 show the ship in the same color scheme that it had been in earlier in the war, with no traces of camouflage.
Similarly, the ship is not camouflaged in an October 1944 photograph taken in the Deutsch-Werke dry docks in Gotenhafen.

Finally, post-sinking photographs show no signs of camouflage, with the ship remaining in an overall light grey scheme with black funnel tops. I have no information as to whether the ship was going to receive a different paint scheme upon assuming service as a convoy ship.

I sought out this forum not only because I’m building the 1908 kit (which I am very impressed with so far – the only thing “missing” that I’ve noticed are the broadside as well as the aft torpedo tubes), but also because I think it’s important to get good source information out there in the English language. If anyone is interested in specific aspects of the above chronology, I’d be happy to summarize and or provided specific passages from the text to try to shed more light on things.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:17 pm 
I Scouting Group:

Thank you for the informative narrative.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:19 pm 
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I Scouting Group wrote:
Maybe the best place to start is with a general timeline of the ship’s activities from late 1941 onward:


Thanks for the quick reply.

That is a much more accurate time-line then the "Stuff" Wikipedia provides. Your timeline also shows there are errors on several other US-based History-type web sites. Thanks for posting that.

REGARDING CAMO...

Several model manufacturers have put out descriptions of camouflage that S-H supposedly had. I have one photo that does show a Camo . I am not 100% sure this is Schleswig-Holstein and could very well be Schlesien.

Image

Information on this photo from every site I have seen says Schleswig-Holstein. Description of the picture says winter 1941-42. It is hard to make out the area behind and slightly below the bridge to compare with S-H where they had an obvious superstructure difference.
This Photo was published in "German-Battleships-of-wwii-in-action-warships-no-2" by Robert C. Stern. This publication and others that followed continued this description of the photo.

An additional photo that can be viewed as possible camo is this one of S-H sunk and possibly already used as a target hulk. This photo seems to show a possible camouflage. Picture was taken after the ship was re-floated and possibly started to be used as a target by the Soviets:

Image
Photo credit: Archiwum Dokumentacji Mechenicznej-Warszawa, Polska Muszeum Wojska Polskiego-Warszawa, Polska.

But this photo of a possible "Camo" is not correct as the photo taken at an earlier date looks like this:

Image
(Also from German Warships: 1815–1945. and Internet sources.)

These photos are probably the reason for some to suggest a camouflage pattern to models:
Image

Image
The above are Courtesy of WSW models.

The Photo below also seems to show a slight Hull color variation but it is shadows:
Image
(German Warships, 1815-1945: Major Surface Vessels, Erich Groener)

Many Internet sites continued the camouflage idea with eBay sales of decals in this example.

Image

Some of these photos and others I have previously posted are from online sources and no copyright or annotation note shows as being required to publish under fair-use.

The photo's I have posted on this topic have been used in conjunction with Fair Use as listed below.
• Given credit to the copyright owner
• Refrained from monetizing the infringing content
• Charged for a copy of the content in question
• Noticed similar content that appear elsewhere on the internet
• Purchased the content including a hard or digital copy
• Recorded the content yourself from TV, a movie theater, or the radio
• Copied the content yourself from a textbook, a movie poster or photograph
• Stated that “no copyright infringement is intended”


I Scouting Group,
I see you found that stern torpedo door on the 1908 kit "missing". A minor over-site by Trumpeter. Fortunately an easy fix. They did really good on the 1908 version, especially by including many of the "1935" kits parts. I can foresee buying another 1908 and converting it to a "1930's-look" with Torpedo Sponsons at the bow. I will need a few other parts like the single/combining front funnel.


Some additional research and info:

Source for plans of the 1908 ship
http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_ ... tein_1908/

Some Free paper kits (They still have Schleswig-Holstein.) (S-H is toward the bottom of the battleship page. The site works by donations.)
http://www.shipmodell.com/index_files/0PLAN7B1.html
( These paper kits of Schleswig-Holstein have an error in the superstructure design which makes them look like the Schlesien. It is a platform just aft of the bridge and forward of the Boat deck. S-H did not have this high platform.)

Photos and some History:
https://military.wikia.org/wiki/SMS_Schleswig-Holstein

Naval heritage command:
https://www.history.navy.mil/content/hi ... g-holstein

Many VERY good pictures here:
http://tsushima.su/RU/shipsru/shipsdeut ... ein-photo/


Nino.


Last edited by Nino on Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:04 am 
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As a newcomer to this forum and forums in general and as someone who does not have a good working knowledge of copyright law and fair use exceptions, I'm wary of reproducing the images published in Schultz's book unless someone can offer positive guidance that it would be acceptable to do so in the context of our present discussion.

I do think it is in any case fair and reasonable to describe the photographic record, which I believe establishes two things:

1.) That the camouflage photograph from "Winter 1941/1942" is Schlesien and not Schleswig-Holstein.
2.) It is unlikely that Schleswig-Holstein was painted in a camouflage scheme.

To that end, I'll offer the following descriptions of photographs in Linienschiff Schleswig-Holstein:

1.) An early summer 1940 of the Schleswig-Holstein docked in Gotenhafen (docked to starboard) shows the ship in what I believe is two-tone grey, with a slightly darker hull and light grey superstructure. The Reichsadler is still present on the starboard side aft.

2.) A photograph taken in June 1940 of the ship conducting troop-landing exercises off the coast of Hel, Poland. The three forewardmost 150mm casemate guns on the port side are still installed (the starboard side is not visible). The Reichsadler has also been removed from the stern. The ship is still in a two-tone grey scheme with no camouflage present.

3.) A photograph likely taken on January 14th or 15th, 1942, of the ship being assisted by the icebreaker Stettin. It is clearly down at the bow as described in my last post. The photo would have been taken from the "large naval icebreaker" Castor. The ship is uniformly grey here as well, but there's not enough contrast to see whether it's a two-tone or monotone scheme.

4. Multiple photos from the spring and summer of 1944 show the ship in an overall light grey scheme.

5. A photo from early October 1944 with the ship in the Deutsche Werke AG docks in Gotenhafen also show an overall light grey scheme.

From these (an the absence of Schmidt mentioning changes to the paint scheme in an otherwise very granularly-detailed text, in my opinion, rule out that the "camo" photo could have been the Schleswig-Holstein in either 1940 or in the winter of 1941-42. The ship was not camouflaged when it struck a mine on 1/13/42, and it spent the subsequent months either receiving temporary repairs in Danzig or at Kriegsmarinewerft Wilhelmshaven in dry dock.

With multiple photographs taken over a multi-month period in 1944 also not showing camouflage, the only other time that Schleswig-Holstein could have been conceivably camouflaged was in 1943 when it was serving as a barracks ship. The photo in question, however, clearly shows a small vessel (a tug of some sort?) alongside the Schleswig-Holstein, which one wouldn't expect to see next to a stationary barracks ship that had been deactivated.

My guess, therefore, is that the "camouflage" photo is of the Schlesien.

I also think that the photograph of the wrecked ship with possible traces of camouflage is Schlesien as well for the following reasons:

1. The main mast is missing in the "camouflaged wreck" photo. Photographs from Schultz show that the main mast of the Schleswig-Holstein was still present in the fall of 1945, and that the ship was still "sunk" with its aft section flooded and resting on the bottom. Since it doesn't make sense for the possible camouflage traces to have been added after the removal of the mainmast, especially in a post-war environment,

2. The "camouflaged wreck" photo has what appears to be a curvy stripe on the lower portion of the thinner, aft funnel. A photograph taken in 1946 as the ship began to be re-floated does not show any such markings on the funnel.

3.) Several photos taken in 1945, 1946 and 1947 all show the same building behind the ship to the right hand side of the photograph. The "camouflaged wreck" ship has a different background/harbor scenery behind it. There are also two triangular-looking towers of equal height directly behind and to the left of the aft mast in the wreck photo not present in any of the photos of the Schleswig-Holstein. It therefore seems to me that the "camouflaged wreck" photo was taken in a different physical location, perhaps Swinemünde, where Schlesien was scuttled in shallow water.

If you think it would be permissible to post the above-referenced photographs, I'd be happy to do so. Deduction is always a dangerous activity, but I feel pretty confident that the camouflaged ship in the "Winter 1941/2" photograph must be Schlesien and that the wreck is Schlesien, not Schleswig-Holstein as well.

ALSO WORTH MENTIONING is that the extensive damaged to the bridge area of the Schleswig-Holstein was caused by explosive charges being set to destroy various electronics and sensitive equipment, not by bomb hits, prior to the arrival of the Red Army. I know less about Schlesien, but it's plausible that it suffered similar bridge-area damage because similar measures were taken in the final days of the war.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:33 am 
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Fascinating and informative. Thank you gentlemen for posting.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:16 pm 
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Thank you for the "Proofs" of the Color scheme.

It is as Dan had suspected, the Schlesien was painted in that camo pattern.

This Forum gives the capability to send private messages. This is how members distribute certain items of interest where they are unsure of the copyright laws. There are still instances where we should not distribute some material. For instance, Plans and drawings that are proprietary/Purchased, Photos that require a License to reproduce, and other instances specific to the source that it was acquired from. There have been several Posts that itemize some of these conditions. I will try to re-post them here for you in the near future. None of us are perfect at knowing the Copyright law. The Moderators will Gladly remove any post that steps over the bounds.


Back to the SMS and DKM versions of the " Ship that started World war II"...

Your 1908 version would be fantastic to post on ModelWarShips as a work in progress. I would do a WIP too except I have only been 'Building' since 2016 and am still a novice at building and painting so I fear my work would be too Newbie-like. On the other hand I do have the Interest in History and Research, and I have done a fair amount of corrections to the models I have built. (I have a some examples over on FineScale Modeler Forum.)


I really like that camouflage on the SCHLESIEN. No one has ever posted it on any of the previously available WSW or HP 1/700 models of S-H, as far as I know.
The S-H and Schlesien, although sisters, had several differences. I am now extremely curious as to what it will take to make a Schlesien from the S-H kit. That would be a very interesting model with that unique Camo pattern.
That's another research endeavour I may get myself into. (I do have a small collection of Schlesien photos but very few can be reproduced here)


Nino (Jim)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:56 pm 
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The camouflage scheme on the Schlesien is very interesting, even considering that Bismarck had its famous “Baltic” striped scheme and Tirpitz had some pretty spectacular “dazzle” patterns. The greens in particular are an interesting choice. I’d have to think that that scheme would have been of greater value in obscuring the ship from aerial reconnaissance that for making rangefinding more difficult in a surface engagement.

While I’ve been modeling for awhile, this will only be my 3rd 1:350 ship, the other two being Revell’s Bismarck Platinum edition and ICM’s König (with various aftermarket upgrades). I haven’t made it very far and nobody would mistake me for an accomplished modeler, but I’m happy to post pictures of the progress I have made. I thought about trying to address the missing underwater torpedo tubes (the bow tub is represented on the kit, however), but ultimately decided that I don’t really have the skills to address it and that the kit is so nice otherwise, I wouldn’t want to detract from the finished product.

In addition to now having released two different “versions” of the Schleswig-Holstein, Trumpeter and Hobby Boss seem to be big on getting the most out of their molds – Trumpter has put out a Prinz Eugen, an Admiral Hipper and a Blücher, and I believe that there are a couple of different Danton-class pre-dreadnaughts out there. It wouldn’t be terribly surprising I suppose if they were one day to release a Schlesien as well. In terms of conversion of one of the existing kits into a late-war Schlesien, someone with much better modeling and scratch-building scales than I would have to weigh in.

In addition to providing a lot of information about the ship’s later years and the sinking, Schultz also offers a very thorough account of the Battle of Westerplatte, complete with a transcript of the captain’s address to the crew regarding the ship’s “secret mission”, and some very interesting photographs of the days immediately prior to the beginning of hostilities, including assault troops assembled below deck. If anyone here is interested in modeling the ship during that period, or has a general interest in those particular events please let me know. I’d like to use what language skills I have to try to expand the historical record. The various intrigues leading up to the opening of hostilities are probably most interesting, but there’s also a good narrative of the bombardment operations, number of rounds fired, observed effect, etc. The ship at one point also sustained a hit from Polish return fire, which is something I had not previously known.

Schultz also provides detailed accounts of the ship’s three multi-month international training cruises, which carried it to distant ports in the Caribbean, South/Central America, and around the African continent. There’s also good information about the Reichsmarine/Kriegsmarine’s plans to use the ship in conjunction with torpedo-bearing craft in a potential conflict with France.
Finally, as a member of the crew and a survivor of the air raid that put the ship out of commission, the book provides a detailed account of the events of that evening and the subsequent days, as well as the survivors’ experiences as ground troops defending the immediate area against the advancing Red Army.

Translating and publishing large swathes of the text is certainly out of bounds, but I think that summarizing the content as well as including the occasional direct quotation accompanied with a translation should be fine, especially as it pertains to war diary entries and other military communications that are otherwise publicly available in archives somewhere.

As for my own model, I’d be happy to post pictures, but I haven’t been able to make any of the pictures smaller than 400kb. If there’s a better way to post photos (uploading and then linking to them?), I’d be happy to try that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:48 pm 
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Nino wrote:
TI would do a WIP too except I have only been 'Building' since 2016 and am still a novice at building and painting so I fear my work would be too Newbie-like.

Don't let that stop you. You'll find folks here are mostly encouraging and helpful. You should start that thread. Plus, you are probably being to harsh on yourself.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:04 pm 
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I Scouting Group wrote:
...

As for my own model, I’d be happy to post pictures, but I haven’t been able to make any of the pictures smaller than 400kb. If there’s a better way to post photos (uploading and then linking to them?), I’d be happy to try that.



Take a look here:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1261

There are 2 methods.
The 1st greatly limits the size of the Photo but it is stored here on the forum so will not be "lost".

The 2nd uses a Hosting site of your choice. The photos I have posted using the 2nd method have not been limited in size so far. HOWEVER, If they don't appear then the site has limited it. The way around that is to post the LINK to the photo. That always works.

If you really want to get a point across on some detail, method 2 gives you the best option for the highest quality.
Nino.


P.S. I use a few free hosting sites: Flickr, IMGUR, and Postimage.
The pay sites are a bit better and can be more depended upon to still be there in the near future. DON'T use PHOTOBUCKET ( My Opinion)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:19 pm 
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Alright, let me test this out then. This is the lower hull, which, for the most part, is all I've completed so far.

https://imgur.com/gallery/R6eDa6f


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:30 pm 
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That Works!

Your "Painted lower hull" looks terrific.

Thanks for that nice charcoal grey boot-topping. Looks excellent.

Nino.


EDIT: It looks like you painted the inside of the hull white. Nice idea since the port holes are all open.

Your 17.0cm barrels look really good. Are these the kit barrels?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:36 pm 
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Yes, nice start. We do ask, however, that you start a separate "WIP" thread for your build. Otherwise, these Calling All _______ Fans threads get overrun with broken picture links and old posts.

The in progress forum is here: viewforum.php?f=59

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