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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:35 pm 
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König


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:38 pm 
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Grosser Kurfürst. WEM is pretty close.


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Last edited by Dakra on Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:43 pm 
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König colors


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:51 pm 
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Closeup from the same photo shows it is painted directly on the steel, seems a bit crude. Probably to replace the cast metal Wappen that had been removed earlier. Not sure which vessel this is yet.


[quote="Maarten Schönfeld"]Hi Christian,

[quote]But unfortunetely I find nowhere any Information about the sign of Markgraf, particularly Color(s) of this sign in which should be painted. [/quote]
You got yourself a hard nut to crack! The problem is: the König class battleships were completed on the verge of WWI breaking out, and at that point in time all active ships in the navy were ordered to remove their bow-crest (Bugwappen in German), I believe to make recognition by the enemy more difficult. So during and after the war you'll find hardly any photographs of ship of the Imperial Navy (Kaiserliche Marine) with these bow crests.

Only Grosser Kurfürst and König were put into service before the war (30.7.1914 and 9.8.1914), and I found some pictures of these two ships wearing their crowns as bow-crest. But Markgraf and Kronprinz were only put into service well after the hostilities had started (1.10.1914 and 8.11.1914), I therefore belief there is hardly any chance you'll ever find a photo of these ships with any crown as bow-crest.

But then this postcard, clearly saying it's the Markgraf?
[attachment=1]markgraf_60no is grosser kurfürst0_jpg.jpg[/attachment]
I'm afraid we're fooled again, this is the Kurfürst. The type of crown is anyway incorrect for a Markgraf (marquess), feast yourself on heraldic crowns:
[url]http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangkrone[/url]

But WEM supplies them in their PE set? Yes, and so does Gold Medal Modes in theirs, but having these sets both at hand I can say these are vastly different! In particular for Markgraf: GMM shows a sort of fleuron-crown, and WEM in fact shows an imperial crown which is heraldically totally incorrect! But anyway, both can only sprout from a vivid imagination. So hardly any use of phantacising about the colours. I would say gold with coloured gems...

But then there is this photograph of 'MARKGRAF auf Probefahrt' (on trial) in the Marine-Arsenal booklet about the König-class, page 22)? Clearly with a bow-crest consisting of two coats-of-arms? Sorry, gotcha! the maker of the booklet made an error, this is a Kaiser class battleship, not a König, in fact it shows SMS Kaiserin! And yes, that ship was in service well before the war...

So, if you really want to add this crown to you model of Markgraf, it will be an artistical liberty you have, but there is no historical evidence to support that. Personally I think the crown from GMM woud at least be closer from a heraldic point of view. WEM's is certainly not.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:22 pm 
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opposite side with painted crest


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:32 pm 
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http://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic13433/

This Russian forum has an epic thread on building a Koenig Class model.

Dave


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:33 pm 
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Hi Dave,

That's super nice info, many thanks! At least much better info regarding König and Grosser Kurfürst. And I must agree with you that WEM's GK emblem could be adapted easily into something which would be very close.

But the quest remains: what did Markgraf's 'Bugzier' actually look like?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:25 am 
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Wow ... I think I know now nearly anything and many thanks for the help Dave and Maarten.

About the crown at least ... by chance I can get this crown from GMM too by a close friend who failed at his "Koenig" (modelers accident, you know ...) and who normally makes nearly only planes.

However, I got in meantime also PM answer by John of WEM:

Quote:
Peter Hall replied today: "I can't remember because it was so long ago that I did that set. I know it was from a valid source that I got hold of the images for the bow crowns. I agree with the chap that they were probably removed when war broke out."


About the core point at least as Maarten wrote:

Quote:
But the quest remains: what did Markgraf's 'Bugzier' actually look like?


I think slowly more and more that there was only the yellow / red coat of arms of "county of Baden" painted on or as colored metal plate on bow. I still have some time about for final installment here at my SMS Markgraf and so I will seep some time about investigate further before final decision if the coat or the crown at least. :-)

Cheers,
Christian

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:11 am 
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As the class was named after monarchial titles, not states, Markgraf would have had the crown in the first reference photo I posted, not a state coat of arms. But the war broke out before Markgraf was commissioned, so it was probably not used due to security policy. In any case, I have never seen a photo of Markgraf with a bow decoration. -Dave


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:24 pm 
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I'm part way through construction on my ICM Konig. I'm having trouble figuring out the tops to the crane derricks, just forward of the aft funnel. The instruction sheet shows a couple of very small parts at the top of the derricks, but no detail is given on how to attach them. Is it possible to post a couple of pics of other's completed models, focussing on the derricks?

Thanks! :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:52 am 
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http://s45.radikal.ru/i108/1301/ec/494235694c6e.jpg

http://s58.radikal.ru/i161/1301/19/3d904787ef94.jpg

Not sure if this is helpful?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:57 pm 
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I stumbled across that building thread late last night. I also found this...

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1360604370/74b0c22a/1736176.jpg

...which told me I screwed up in guessing how those parts went on. :Tirade: The images you linked back this up.

Time to pull off some parts and try again!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:41 am 
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Good Pictures .... and I have to correct some things at my current Markgraf now too! :eyes_spinning:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:39 am 
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Good morning,

I build, as still told, the SMS Markgraf of ICM in the pre- / during battle of Jutland version with torpedo nets, booms etc.
I become now somehow skeptic about these rangefinders on top of 2 turrets if they were still installed at this time or only later...
Does anyone have an idea and can help me? :-)

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 Post subject: ventilation part
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:11 am 
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I'm having huge problem to build the ventilation cooling under the funnel structures on my Combrig Grosser Kürfurst... this small pieces must be all parallel and all on the same inclination and its never straight.
Any advise ?

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 Post subject: Re: ventilation part
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:20 am 
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A picture would help with what it is.
Do you mean the vent grating here?
Image

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:43 am 
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yes this part...


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 2:28 pm 
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You have it right. They are parallel to the deck with the longest at the bottom.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:55 am 
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Coming back after long term on my GK, i wanted to know how to create bending cables for the torpedo net arms... and if we have some photo ressources to get realistic renders, thanks for your trips...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:51 pm 
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Hi,

Would it be safe to assume that one could then build an HP Kronpronz kit as one of her sisters, namely Konig? Or their molds are all exactly the same?

drdoom1337 wrote:
That photo of Kronprinz has all of the bridge platforms that Konig does, so I'm going to assume they were added after the torpedo nets/booms and casemates were plated over. I just don't want to get 75% through my build to find out it's all wrong.

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