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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:52 pm 
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I'm about 25% of the way through building ICM's "Grosser Kurfurst" kit, with the WEM photo-etch, and have a question about one of the parts on the PE set: Where exactly do the "armoured turret doors" (parts #22) go? They don't appear to replace any of the plastic parts or moulded detail, and I've looked through all the ICM Konig builds in the gallery and can't see these doors on the turrets.

I have a few more questions: I'm using the paint scheme described on this page, the hull is medium grey and the upper works light grey. On the Konig class, the superstructure housing the 15cm casemates "merges" with the hull sides at the point of the forecastle break. Should this area of the hull sides - above the main deck and forward of the forecastle break - be painted medium or light grey? I'm guessing light grey but am not sure; all the models I've seen have been painted overall light grey.

Another PE-related question is the location of the deck hatches, there are only 8 hatches included in the PE set and at least 12-14 moulded hatches on the kit's deck. Which of these are the PE hatches intended to replace, or doesn't it matter?

Finally - would the bow emblem (crown) be gold in colour, or painted?

I'm building my model as SMS Konig in 1918, as this is the most straightforward way to build an accurate model from the ICM kit (all 3 kits are identical) and doesn't require building the extremely intricate, fragile and hard to paint torpedo net shelf.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:45 pm 
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Hi Ed, is this any help to you ? It's the Grosser Kurfurst sailing to Scapa Flow for internment following Germany's surrender at the end of WW1. No Turret doors are visible so I would guess they would be on the rear of the turret's. I think I have a better photo somewhere, if I can find it I'll post it here, Aidan.


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01_sms_grosser_kurfurst_surrendering.jpg
01_sms_grosser_kurfurst_surrendering.jpg [ 111.64 KiB | Viewed 4919 times ]

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:24 pm 
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Also have a look at this,

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... konig.html

might be usefull.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:49 am 
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I also had the same questions and decided to do it like this:

1) Turret doors. I understood that normally a turret shall have a door to enter it. But I looked all (I believe) models on MW including that of JB and did not spot those doors. Thus I decided not to make them (as this model gives me much headache with other questions - I console myself with a wording "it is a hobby in any case" :smallsmile: )
2) Paint scheme. I make it in one grey color so I can not comment this question.
3) Door hatches. You have a couple of doors to left open (available in PE in open position) so that you do not need door hatches for them. I chose most visible spots to cover with door hatches leaving "as it is" other non visible ones.
4) Emblem. I decided it is too beautiful in PE to paint it grey. I will take "artist license" to leave it unpainted (hope I will be forgiven - but even if damned I like to see it in bronze very much).
5) May be I am too self-confident but I decided to try building my Grosser Kurfurst in Pre-Yutland version with torpedo nets on. My decision was based on that there are not so many ships with those torpedo nets so I want to have it here.

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:54 am 
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Hi Ed!

I am building ICM König, using both WEM and GMM sets. I decided to back-date her in Jutland fit, with torpedo net shelves, numerous support brackets and handling davits for nets. A lot of extra work was needed to install all those fragile parts but I´m pleased with the result.
OK, back to business

1. Armoured doors

They don't replace any of the plastic parts or moulded detail indeed. Every 305 mm main turret (ICM part E5) had two shell ejector doors on rear side. Those doors can be clearly seen on rear sides of all German capital ships´ main turrets. GMM provides those U-shaped doors (12 pieces, 2 are spare in case of loss) and they are different from WEM ones. I used GMM.
On the other hand, you can install one WEM armoured door on rear of armoured conning tower (ICM H13) and also one on front of aft director tower (ICM G4)

2. Paint scheme

Same thing bothered me too. Then I decided to paint my König by following this pattern, the only one that makes sense to me (Tony Van Wyk´s excellent ISW 1/350 SMS Seydlitz)

Image
Image
Image

I placed my order for RAL 7035/7038 WEM colourcoats and wait for them to start paint job, so if anyone has better idea concerning this paint scheme step forward before it´s too late! :D

3. Deck hatches

Gee, I really don´t know... GMM provides all 14 hatches for moulded ones on kit´s deck so I used them

4. Bow crests and nameplates

In wartime, all such hull decorations were painted gray - like the rest of the hull

Hope this help.
Respectfully,

Drazen


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:34 pm 
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Hi EPinniger

Although it's the SMS Seydlitz, the arrangement should be similar (?)
Hope this helps
Image

Rui

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:41 pm 
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Thanks to all for the help! Should the turret shell ejector doors be placed on the centerline, or offset to one side?
(edit: I wrote the above before Rui Matos's post. It looks like the doors should be lined up with the square objects - vents? on the roof. These squares are much closer together on the Konig-class turrets, so presumably the hatches should be also)
As suggested, I put the 6th, spare hatch on the conning tower.

After looking through the MW galleries I've found a couple of models painted in the two-tone scheme, it looks like the entire hull side should be painted medium grey, with a vertical divide between this and the lighter superstructure colour at the forecastle break. Whilst it's hard to say for sure, the photos here also appear to show this. It definitely looks like all the superstructure bulkheads are painted light grey, rather than the medium grey hull colour.

To Drazen - do you know what paint Tony van Wyk used for the lower hull of his Seydlitz? It looks a lot more blue in tone than the colour shown on the page I linked to in my first post; if this colour is accurate, Revell #57 Grey is an almost exact match.

I'd like to build my model with the torpedo net shelf, but couldn't face the thought of assembling and painting it, with its dozens of spiderweb-fine support brackets and net davits - as it's on the sides of the ship it would also make the completed model very vulnerable to damage. Also, building the kit as a pre-Jutland ship would require some extra conversion and scratchbuilding work, whilst the 1918 Konig just requires covering the 88mm casemates and adding an extra mast top (both of which are included in the WEM set).

I agree with Yevgeniy about the crown emblem; what I'm probably going to do is paint it in the hull colour (after gluing in place), then use a knife or fine sanding stick to remove the paint from the raised areas, so it appears gold/brass in colour without looking too much like a piece of brass glued onto the hull.

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Last edited by Edward Pinniger on Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:46 pm 
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and now for the Koenig itself:
(sorry for the image size, guys)
Image

Image

Detail...
Image

;)
Cheers,
Rui

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:28 pm 
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Hi Rui!

It´s a profile from Warship Profile #37 - König Class Battleships. Unfortunately, it does not represent König... From the start König was fitted as fleet flagship and had an additional upper bridge platform which was used an admiral´s bridge. Markgraf received a similar bridge platform during her 1917 refit. Kronprinz and Großer Kurfürst never had a upper bridge, although Kronprinz received a platform around her tube mast during her 1917 refit. That profile depicts either Markgraf or Kurfürst in pre-Jutland fit.

EPinniger wrote:
Thanks to all for the help! Should the turret shell ejector doors be placed on the centerline, or offset to one side?
(edit: I wrote the above before Rui Matos's post. It looks like the doors should be lined up with the square objects - vents? on the roof. These squares are much closer together on the Konig-class turrets, so presumably the hatches should be also)


Turret shell ejector doors should be lined up with the barrels. GMM instruction sheet has exact measures (in inches and milimetres) for positioning them correctly, will post some pictures of it for you tomorrow

EPinniger wrote:
After looking through the MW galleries I've found a couple of models painted in the two-tone scheme, it looks like the entire hull side should be painted medium grey, with a vertical divide between this and the lighter superstructure colour at the forecastle break. Whilst it's hard to say for sure, the photos here also appear to show this. It definitely looks like all the superstructure bulkheads are painted light grey, rather than the medium grey hull colour.


Could be... Take a look at this profile of Seydlitz, too (I am gathering infos for my next build, ISW 1/350 Seydlitz battlecruiser, therefore I´m all in her!)

http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/battlecruiser/seydlitz/index.html

EPinniger wrote:
To Drazen - do you know what paint Tony van Wyk used for the lower hull of his Seydlitz? It looks a lot more blue in tone than the colour shown on the page I linked to in my first post; if this colour is accurate, Revell #57 Grey is an almost exact match.


He used Colourcoats. I really don´t know about Revell equivalents, perhaps this can help you


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:41 pm 
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Drazen wrote:
Hi Rui!

It´s a profile from Warship Profile #37 - König Class Battleships. Unfortunately, it does not represent König... From the start König was fitted as fleet flagship and had an additional upper bridge platform which was used an admiral´s bridge. Markgraf received a similar bridge platform during her 1917 refit. Kronprinz and Großer Kurfürst never had a upper bridge, although Kronprinz received a platform around her tube mast during her 1917 refit. That profile depicts either Markgraf or Kurfürst in pre-Jutland fit.


Hi Drazen
Thanks for your knowledgeable help on this König issue - I took it for granted that it was the SMS König (as the image legend says...) but, considering EPinniger cry for help, I thought that it would help is quest ;)
Cheers,
Rui

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:24 pm 
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Every contribution is most welcome! :thumbs_up_1:
For example, this is the König in her first guise (after torpedo nets had been removed but before the new foremast had been stepped)...
Image

... and this is early-war Markgraf. The lack of upper bridge platform is clearly visible.
Image

Btw, I have 4 ICM Königs kits, my goal is to do all four Kings in their different guises. When you add ISW 1/350 Seydlitz man can say I´m true Hochseeflotte fan! :P


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:48 am 
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Revell colours for the German fleet in WWI are 57 and 375 (RAL 7000/7001).

They are slightly lighter and more blue than the combination suggested by WEM on their webpage.

IMHO they are both equally OK. Also, note that the instructions of the Revell Emden kit siggest a mix of Revell paint (57 for the Hull and a white/grey mix for the uppers).

//M


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:14 am 
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i found this on a german plan of konig, hope can help
ciao peppe


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torre konig.JPG
torre konig.JPG [ 54.95 KiB | Viewed 4545 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:59 am 
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I have been reluctant to post images to this forum, as the standards of my fellow modelers are so high that they have made me feel ...inadequate :oops:
Sad but true! Well, in any case, having discovered the uploading feature for the first time, here goes:
Grosser Kurfuerst bow badge. The brass is too bright, so i tried to blacken it selectively with a commercial ptoduct that "gives an antique look" to brass, i.e. blackens it. I may still paint it over...
Attachment:
MW 1.jpg
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Attachment:
MW 2.jpg
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As for the break between medium gray/light gray: I think that only the superstructure is light gray. Please excuse the possibly incorrect terminology and blame it on "english as a second language" lomitations!
Attachment:
MW 3.jpg
MW 3.jpg [ 234.68 KiB | Viewed 4544 times ]


Anthony


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:14 pm 
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She´s real beauty Anthony!

Anthony P wrote:
As for the break between medium gray/light gray: I think that only the superstructure is light gray.


Hm, I am pretty sure I would put my money on that one too.
Can German speaking fellow modelers please translate this

grau Schiffsrumpf bis zur Höhe des Hauptdecks bzw. des Hauptdeck-Schanzkleides bzw. der Backaußenkante und der Verlängerung ihres Straks im Bereich des geschlossenen Oberdecks,

hellgrau Oberdeck, Aufbauten, Ventilatoren, Schornsteine, Masten, etc., Kanonen, Türme, Schutzschilde


I undestand "hellgrau" part, but I´m not sure I understanded correctly "grau" part


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:28 pm 
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Thank you for your kind words, Drazen. I know better, of course, but in the end what matters is enjoying your build and stretching your skills. I have learned quite a lot building this ship, and tried some new techniques for first time, which is satisfying. I only regret not trying more detail after seeing the pictures of your build...
In any case, some more pictures. The ship is approaching completion, with the rigging of the front mast remaining to be doneas well as last details and tidying up.
Attachment:
mw8.jpg
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Attachment:
mw7.jpg
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I have used the infamous Dai-Riki 8X monofilament for the first time. I like it, even if my 50-year old eyes can barely see it. I have painted it black with an Eddings permanent marker. Interestingly, it reacts to heat like steched sprue, becoming taut. Of course, as soon as i found it, Pacific Front announced it is no longer available ! :Mad_5:
Attachment:
mw6.jpg
mw6.jpg [ 179.23 KiB | Viewed 4482 times ]

I decided to paint the crest, as it was too bright otherwise. It is also correct, which is convenient. the cables on the hull are inspired by Jim Bauman's build. I know I may have overdone it, but I kind of like it!

Anthony


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:40 pm 
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...and a question for you guys.
I have rigged the rear mast (mainmast?)
Attachment:
MW4.jpg
MW4.jpg [ 157.42 KiB | Viewed 4442 times ]
Attachment:
mw5.jpg
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but I have a problem with the front mast. i am doing the pre-Jutland fit, as you see, and the rigging plans in my reference (Vom Original zum Modell: Die Linienschiffe der Nassau=bis Koenig-Klasse) show the fit of the later mast with the enlarged fighting top. However, the picture of Kaiser on page 34-35 shows rigging which is similar to that seen in the plan of the Ostfriesland on page 48. I am thinking of using that as a guide. Your suggestions are welcome!

Anthony

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:24 pm 
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Hello,

I´m new here , started after 20 years modelbuilding again. After a 1:350 SMS Emden, which will be finished soon, my new project is a ICM SMS König. I want to build it in 1918 outfit . Unfortunately I found nearly no good photos in the i-net. Has anybody of you a good source?

Best regards

Marc


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:14 pm 
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Hi Marc -and welcome!
I had a 20-year+ hiatus from modelling before I rediscovered its pleasures, but that was 13 years ago, in the mid-nineties!
Your question: if you go through this thread, you will note that a bibliography is mentioned. Basically, this is what is commercially (widely) available, and it is quite useful and comprehensive. There are fellow members who have further photographs of interest, and are kind enough to share their knowledge. I think you have to be more specific with your questions, though. The kit represents the ship in its post-Jutland fit, and i do not think much had changed by 1918. I stand to be corrected though!
Once again, welcome!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:16 am 
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Hi all!

Anthony, I am myself have questions as to rigging. Your one seem perfect to me - I hope I can achieve it the same (will do the rigging for the first time).

I have a question to all: what do you think of 1/350 railing cut lengthwise so that there is just one "line" of it (normally railing has three "lines") for making those braiding around funnels.

I read Drazen's reply that he used 1/700 railing and his funnels seem perfect to me - but I just have spare 1/350 railing and wonder can I use it without losing the realism.

My idea that I can do it - it will be a little exaggerated - but will look OK - since 1/350 scale will highlight this braiding feature. But I need your opinions to be sure.

Thanks in advance.

Yevgeniy
P.S. I have dial-up so that can answer with some delay.


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