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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Her TROM notes some of the changes for all of her refits: http://www.combinedfleet.com/haruna.htm


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:10 pm 
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I may have posted this before:


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Haruna bridge layout, 1944 vs 42, Gakken #21.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Thank you Dan K.

Unfortunately one can only guess about what's been done during those upgrades.
TROM states:
"16 December 1943-26 February 1944 :
Arrives at Sasebo. Four secondary guns are landed. Four 12.7-cm AA guns (2 x 2) and twelve 25-mm AA guns (4 x 3) are installed. Two Type 0 hydrophones are installed".

(Probably these are the two 12.7 mounts between the funnels, two triplets on the platform infront of the bridge and two on the back superstructure)

"24 June 1944:
Arrives at Sasebo. Drydocked for battle damage repairs and refit. Type 13 radar and additional 25-mm. AA guns are installed".

(This is the most critical one. Since there is no air search radar in the kit, one can deduct that the 1/350 model depicts Haruna before this date, and 1/700 after.
This would explain all the changes to platforms around the front funnel - replacing two 110cm searchlight with 25mm triplets and installing the 60 cm searchlights just under the bridge. Two additional triplets on the aft superstructure, the ones on the main gun turrets, additional pair to the ones on the left and right of the bridge (above the paravanes) and replacing all of the twins with triple mounts.
However, few things are still unexplained:
1. Where is the topmost triplet on AA platform of the pagoda tower - not on either of the kits - but present in Kagero's rendering
2.The shape of lower part of the superstructure - beneath the bridge was widened and causeway leading to AA telemeters and directors ommited or plated over.
3. According to Kagero Publishing the semicircular protrusion at the back of pagoda (with two signal lights) became more substantial and rectangular and two single 25 mm were placed there.
4. A lot of see trough spaces at the back of pagoda were also plated over.
5. A single 25mm triplet was installed on the port side (abaft of the 12.7 under the main mast.

Some of the changes might have been done during her stay in Kure
12 December 1944:
The HARUNA group arrives at Kure.

1 January 1945:
At Kure. BatDiv 3 is deactivated. HARUNA is reassigned to the reactivated BatDiv 1, Second Fleet. During 1945, HARUNA's battle damage is mostly repaired and she is camouflaged gray with very pale gray stripes on her turrets.

Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:50 am 
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One, I would take the Kagero publication with a grain of salt. While I think the renderings wonderful, it's not always clear upon what information it is based. Errors do crop up. Depends on what they used for references.

Two, the Fujimi kit seems to be in early 1944 fit, based on the AA layout.

Three, Takao Ishibishi might be the foremost IJN BB expert in Japan as of recent times. In 2007, he published an enormous illustrated volume on IJN BBs from 1868-1945. Below are two scans of the same page of Haruna in February (top) and October(bottom) 1944. If I were to trust any one source, this would be it. HTH,


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Haruna AA layout 2 vs 10-1944, Ishibashi vol top sm.jpg
Haruna AA layout 2 vs 10-1944, Ishibashi vol top sm.jpg [ 188.17 KiB | Viewed 3730 times ]
Haruna AA layout, Ishibashi 2 vs 10-1944 vol bot.jpg
Haruna AA layout, Ishibashi 2 vs 10-1944 vol bot.jpg [ 191.46 KiB | Viewed 3730 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:22 am 
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Many thanks - this is a brilliant piece of information. If I'm not mistaken that book is in Japanese only.
Is it worth buying it even when one is not fluent in Japanese language?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:14 pm 
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If you're into the BBs, then yes. But, it's long out of production. There were only 500 or 1000 copies printed. It was quite pricey.

You could check Ebay, though I think if it were posted anywhere, it would be on the Japanese version.


Attachments:
Cover.jpg
Cover.jpg [ 30.42 KiB | Viewed 3637 times ]
Ishibashi BB book - Fuso & Ise.jpg
Ishibashi BB book - Fuso & Ise.jpg [ 101.41 KiB | Viewed 3637 times ]
Ishibashi BB book - Ise class.jpg
Ishibashi BB book - Ise class.jpg [ 89.86 KiB | Viewed 3637 times ]
Ishibashi BB book - Hiei.jpg
Ishibashi BB book - Hiei.jpg [ 94.61 KiB | Viewed 3637 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:23 pm 
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Any idea of what the bridge tower would have looked like when it was mounted?

Because the kits show a very different bridge from the Pre-1942/43 bridge (prior to when it had the additional 127mm DP guns added, and additional 25mm AA Guns).

And it would be nice to know if I can bash something together from the Late-war and Earlier-war kits for a Kongo from Aug-Dec 1942.

MB

P.S. As usual, the Japanese appear to have wasted this asset if she had Radar. Still no Fire Control Radar, but something is better than nothing.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:45 pm 
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I'm not clear on what time frame(s) you seek for which ship - Haruna?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:24 am 
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According to Ishibashi the three triple 25mms on the aft bridge were at the same level. This seems a bit odd since the support beams for at least one pair were already there when they removed the fire control posts.

Anyway - the decision has been made.
I'm more than halfway through a bulid and I'm switching the ship to October 1944 appearence.
It might not be the most accurate model, but I have an unused Kongo PE kit from Flyhawk and I will be scavenging parts from there.

To make matter worse, I build my ships with optical fibers to depict lights. How I'll manage to squeeze all the stuff into superstructure is beyond me.

BTW.
How long it takes for Moderator to lift the restrictions on posting?

...Eh nevermind - lifted - thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:44 am 
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Quote:
According to Ishibashi the three triple 25mms on the aft bridge were at the same level.


You're not mistaking the pair on the top of turret #3 as being on the same level, from the overhead view?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:44 am 
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No....:

Image

This is the first time I have ever seen this setup.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:16 pm 
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We lack a good overhead or port side view, postwar. However, I believe Ishibashi does have it correct.


Attachments:
Haruna sunk at Kure, postwar, sized.jpg
Haruna sunk at Kure, postwar, sized.jpg [ 142.31 KiB | Viewed 3549 times ]
Haruna sunk at Kure, postwar, crop.jpg
Haruna sunk at Kure, postwar, crop.jpg [ 56.41 KiB | Viewed 3549 times ]
Haruna aft superstructure, sink at Kure postwar.jpg
Haruna aft superstructure, sink at Kure postwar.jpg [ 122.42 KiB | Viewed 3549 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:21 am 
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To answer one of your previous questions...The Kagero's Haruna gives credit to Mutsuo Uchiyama.

Now, according to this picture the original triple platform (on the left) is at the same level as top of the superstructure, the right one is clearly raised and extends way past the vertical mid point of the funnel. Ishibashi's drawing here is thus incorrect.
Marked with yellow is a gangway which is lower than the platform.
I think Kagero has it right.
Image

The sponson on the pagoda tower also seems to narrow on Ishibashy's drawing and I would go with Kagero as well.
Please keep in mind I'm not in favor of anyone, I just wish to get a clear impression.

I'm like a bloke who had a drink to much and has double/triple vision and is desperately trying to unite them ;-)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:45 am 
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Mucho is definitely an expert; he's been kind enough to participate several times on the CASF Aoba & Furutaka class threads.

Agreed, the platforms are staggered to the rear.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:35 am 
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Tiers 3,5 and 6 are remodified according to Kagero.
Still lacking some detailes which will be added at the final stage after the entire pagoda is ready to be mated with the hull.
I expect some rough handling will be needed.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:36 am 
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YES!!!! I'm so excited my favorite battleship IJN Haruna 1/350 is being released and it address the issues mentioned above !!! https://hlj.com/product/FUJ60055 ! Also would it be possible to use Pontos Kongo 1/350 PE set on Haruna??


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:07 am 
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Great, yet another version (third one of the same company) of the ship that has been re-modified twice in 1944.
This is turning into a conundrum.
What Fujimi did with this kit is a shortcut. They used minimal effort in “updating” their existing kit to fit the appearance of 1944/45 version.
It differs greatly from their 1/700 kit which has a lot of flaws on it’s own.

What interests me the most is the placement of the triplets around the aft superstructure.
Somehow this seems a very plausible solution, but I have some reservations.

Image

1. There is no massive support column (No.1)
However in reality this would make a lot of sense if two triplets were added on this extended platform. The Fujimi may be right about this.
2. The support beam (no.2) appears very long. Much longer than before her reconstruction.
Question is: Why would the Japanese change this if the original triplets stayed unchanged (as depicted in the new kit).

Image

Anyone wants to share his view on this mystery ?

Could it be it was something like this?

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Location: The Savo Island
What interests me the most is the placement of the triplets around the aft superstructure.
Somehow this seems a very plausible solution, but I have some reservations.

1. There is no massive support column (No.1)
However in reality this would make a lot of sense if two triplets were added on this extended platform. The Fujimi may be right about this.
2. The support beam (no.2) appears very long. Much longer than before her reconstruction.
Question is: Why would the Japanese change this if the original triplets stayed unchanged (as depicted in the new kit).

Anyone wants to share his view on this mystery ?
Could it be it was something like this?
・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・

hi,mates;
nr.1= my take is, only 1 beam-support will suffice, becausethe the sponson is also supported by the 25mm AA ammo hoist tower, and this beam-support length can be shorter than you expressed temporalilly on the model.I think i have had an image showing this.
nr.2= the sponson here is also supported by a very large bracket with one punched hole, it would just need a beam support of ordinary length.is my another take.
As i have no knowledge about the depiction in the new kit,I may not be in a position to discuss,I would stay out.

cheers,
mucho,


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:14 am 
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Hi Mucho,

Thank You very much for your contribution.
Here are some pictures of the upcoming kit so that we all know what we are talking about.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I agree that the support beam is shorter and the ammo hoist bares part of the load, however none of these features are depicted in a new kit.

Cheers,
Jurij


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:41 pm 
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Location: The Savo Island
hi, Jurij,
I have some reason to believe that Fujimi didn´t have competent staff(s) or resarcher(s) at the time of making the new kit of Haruna 1944. The ammo hoist in question(portside) is seen on their 1/350 demo model. There ought to be this ammo hoist at starboard,too,but this is missing on it. They must have failed to perceive it on archive photos as well as existence of the very large brackets and the support beams.

http://nabeck.web.fc2.com/wr12.htm

br
mucho,


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