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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Hank,
Continuing our discussion about the netting inside of the cage mast as seen in this photo.
Image
I agree that this is not vertical netting. I believe it is horizontal netting to catch falling objects. There was probably 4 nets throughout the mast. To me it looks to be about the same spacing that a typical chain linked fence is today. I doubt they were used as a platform for the crew to walk on but I have no idea.
Jeff


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:33 pm 
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so that would be a wire mesh netting not a rope netting as used in large fishing nets?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:38 am 
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Jeff wrote:
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agree that this is not vertical netting. I believe it is horizontal netting to catch falling objects. There was probably 4 nets throughout the mast. To me it looks to be about the same spacing that a typical chain linked fence is today. I doubt they were used as a platform for the crew to walk on but I have no idea.


Last night I looked over quite a few older/cage mast BB photos (336 to be exact) to see what I could find and the 3-4 platforms/mast seem about right as a consistent factor in many of the USN masts. I'm going to take a stab and say that these were actually walkable expanded metal platforms with ladders up to and down from for access. I don't think they were equipment platforms, but more levels for possibly stability within the mast structure itself. One thing I've thought is that due to the angle of the ladders, these platforms provided a landing for the ladder below - so, quite possibly access platforms and nothing more.

It would be interesting if we could find some type of technical reference or historical engineering documents describing how these masts were constructed and what their various parts were defined as being.

Hank

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Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
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USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:53 am 
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Fascinating question. I Googled it, and found an image of a USS Rhode Island mast in 1910 with some men that appear to be standing on such a platform. Link:

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news ... d931878872


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:43 pm 
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The interesting thing here in West Virginia's plans is the forward mast has a platform for a Std compass and bell. But there is no mention of any platforms in her mainmast.
https://maritime.org/doc/plans/bb48.pdf


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Having experience in access requirements for refinery distillation towers (eg) here are some observations of the cage mast photos posted compared to my experience (which includes climbing those towers - a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away).

1. Refinery access ladders are caged above about 12' (for entrance). The cages are fall protection. After about a 30' climb (max) there is a side step-off to another platform before continuing the climb. Vertical ladders have these cages and spacing for ease of climbing and personnel protection. This is repeated until the top is reached. Next time you pass by a refinery with tall towers this is quite evident. The platforms can be either plate or "subway grating" such as found in New York and other cities.

2. Battleship cage masts have steeply inclined ladders (at least in the wider lower sections) to reach the control tops. As far as I know this is the only access to the tops. You can see that a climber must transfer from one ladder to another thus needing a safe step-off to make the transfer. The steel mesh "platform" serves as the transfer point and fall protection if one slips. The cage mast itself serves as outward fall protection thus no cages are needed for the ladders.

All this makes sense then and now because crew fall protection is found in all ships and industrial facilities. So the "mesh" on cage masts is horizontal and is made of metal and probably framed for support to allow a safe transfer while climbing under any conditions.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Came across some cool color footage of USS Colorado.
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:25 am 
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Fascinating!

Black top on turret 1, and a "45" on turret 2.

Looks like that dark red-brown non-skid decking material at the conning tower wing platforms, but deck gray over the center structure; and the birdbath tub on the maintop looks like it's in #5 standard gray and not deck gray!

Clearly white face and black numbers on the foremast range clock - but what's that black mass with white pieces hanging from the face of the foretop?

Only 3 MG installed in the maintop.

Can't tell about the top of turret 3, but 4 looks like deck gray.

Could some color adjustment/enhancement be done using the yellow wings of the SOC as a baseline target?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:56 am 
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Here is the link to the film.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pkLuyXPy_eM
The thing on the forward fighting top is the MG tub with about 9 sailors in it. I’m not seeing the red brown decking but I’ll look again.


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 7:26 pm 
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Jeff Sharp wrote:
Came across some cool color footage of USS Colorado.

Image



USS MARYLAND has a 46 more crudely painted on Turret 2 sideways (see link, probably due to the rangefinder), apparently in 1936. Possibly this was temporary for the Fleet Problem XVII in May of that yeayr? Anyone know when and for how long this was added to Turret 2 for air recognition?

http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/us_navy_pages/us_navy_battleship_photos/uss_maryland_bb46/07_uss_maryland_battleship.jpg


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:24 pm 
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Planning to laminate the blisters on an unbulged spare Trumpeter hull for the '41 Maryland but have yet to find the dimensions. Any sources or data will be much appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:06 pm 
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use this link http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/BB45/BOGP/ of the Colorado 1944 to get the outline for Maryland's bulges. total ship's beam is 108' 1.25" from that link. I'm currently working on the Maryland by kitbashing Revell's 1/429 scale USS Arizona. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165105
is this 1/700 scale because if correct then need to add 2mm per-side for each bulge. use .010"(1mm) plastic to buildup the bulges as that is what I'm doing.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Here is some information I provided concerning the bulge back in October 2015 in the other thread for these ships. See page 8 of the Calling all rebuilt "Big 5" (TN/MD Class) fans.


While looking through my stack of plans from Floating Drydock I came across the plans for the Maryland 1945. I had forgotten I had these, so never looked at them for the bulge issue for the 1/700 Trumpeter Maryland 1941, Maryland 1945 and Colorado 1944 kits. The plan set has one sheet with seven cross sections of the hull with the bulge at 1/8 inch = 1 foot. The larger plan and profile sheets are in 1/16 inch = 1 foot. On the plan the bulge is 12 feet from the top to the waterline. or in 1/700 scale 0.201 inch. The model's hulls all have a height of the bulge from top to waterline at approximately 0.23 inch and adding the baseplate this increases to 0.26 inch. So as noted in this topic earlier the models all set too high. Leaving the base plate off helps some.

The frames are measured along the waterline on the plans with frame 0 at the point where the bow touches the water. Each frame is 4 feet on the scale. Here is what I measured from the plan set.

Frame Top of Bulge width (1/700) Water line bulge width (1/700) distance from Bow at waterline (1/700)
Frame 19 0' (0") 1' (0.017") 76' (1.30")
Frame 40 2.8' (0.048") 4' (0.068") 160' (2.74")
Frame 55 4.0' (0.068") 5.2' (0.089") 220' (3.77")
Frame 74 4.8' (0.082") 6.0' (0.102") 296' (5.07")
Frame 94 4.5' (0.077") 6.0' (0.102") 376' (6.45")
Frame 106 3.0' (0.051") 4.8' (0.082") 424' (7.27")
Frame 124 1.9' (0.032") 3.0' (0.051") 496' (8.50")


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:37 pm 
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I need to take reality check on California’s appearance in early December, 1941. I’ve read thru this thread, others, the countless battle line color discussions going back well over a decade and a half, Tracy’s website, the ship camouflage website, and several other sites. I believe I have a handle on the various directives, the timing of the directives, the issues stemming from the timing, the colors, etc.

Specifically to California: per DANFS, it appears that she emerged from a refit at either Mare Island or Puget Sound in mid-April, 1941 and then rejoined the Pacific Fleet. Given the timing of SHIPS-2 in January, her refit on the mainland, and the timing/issues with the revisions in SHIPS-2 Rev.1 in September, is it most likely that she was still painted in 5D in December? Is there a consensus on this? All thoughts appreciated.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:54 am 
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Based on post attack photos, my own opinion is she was most definitely 5D. She looks almost black in salvage photos.
EDIT: Found the photo I was thinking of:
Attachment:
BB44PHSalvage.jpg
BB44PHSalvage.jpg [ 208.66 KiB | Viewed 13367 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:13 am 
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From the LIFE archives. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if these are TN or CA, but they are great shots:
Attachment:
LIFEBig5.jpg
LIFEBig5.jpg [ 93.02 KiB | Viewed 13373 times ]

Attachment:
LIFEBig5a.jpg
LIFEBig5a.jpg [ 101.33 KiB | Viewed 13371 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:38 am 
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Judging by where the 5-L starts, it appears to be TN. California 5-L started one deck lower.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:57 pm 
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Ok, here’s a question for the experts. As far as I can tell, the Big Five received external ventilator trunks for their main turrets as part of their final refits before Pearl Harbor. Excepting turret number three, due to the arrangement of the catapult fittings atop the turret.

However, my examination of California photos doesn’t seem to show these fitting for the Pearl Harbor timeframe, though sister Tennessee clearly has them. Am I wrong, or is it possible that California never received this aspect of the upgrade?


Attachments:
USS California BB-44 1940.jpg
USS California BB-44 1940.jpg [ 371.45 KiB | Viewed 13203 times ]
USS California BB-44, sunk closeup 12-7 or 8-1941 80-G33948 A crop.jpg
USS California BB-44, sunk closeup 12-7 or 8-1941 80-G33948 A crop.jpg [ 336.04 KiB | Viewed 13203 times ]
USS Tennesse BB-43 & USS W est Virginia BB-48 on 12-07-1941_80-G32475 crop.jpg
USS Tennesse BB-43 & USS W est Virginia BB-48 on 12-07-1941_80-G32475 crop.jpg [ 318.29 KiB | Viewed 13203 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:54 pm 
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So I was looking through the thread and noticed this on the side of the Tennessee's main mast gun tub, is that an ammo locker?


Attachments:
Image7.jpg
Image7.jpg [ 301.29 KiB | Viewed 5444 times ]

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:51 pm 
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Another question, model related this time, was there ever a Photo Etch detail set made for the Trumpeter 1/700 1941 Tennessee or California? I can't seem to find any.

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