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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:27 pm 
Tom's Modelworks #720 is a generic set for the Big FIVE.

Dan K


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:07 pm 
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I wasn't sure which Big 5 thread to post this in, But since it is post Dec 7th, I figured here would be best. I apologize if this has been discussed already.

There are several videos on YouTube of salvage operations at Pearl Harbor. I was curious what those more knowledgeable about film and color could tell me about this snippet of USS California preparing to leave for the main land.

To me it looks like she has mostly been repainted, but maybe the funnels and upper super structure/bridge decks weren't. The freshly painted parts of the ship look VERY blue. To my untrained eye the colors look close to actual based on the skin tones and uniform colors, but I have no film experience to base this off of. I've read of things like color shifting and such, but don't fully understand them.

My question is how possible is it they used 5S to paint the hull/turrets/gun deck and left the funnels and bridge/upper super structure decks the color they were? (To me the non-freshly painted parts look too blue to be 5D, but the film could be blue shifted) As it looks like she still is in a semi-Ms1 scheme here.

https://youtu.be/tyEH_IfQgkg

*edit, I thought I originally posted this in the rebuilt big 5thread*

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:15 pm 
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Here is a rare look down into the gun tubs on the forward fighting top of USS West Virginia. It's interesting to see how the fighting top was cutout to accommodate access to the gun tubs.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:01 pm 
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is shown in this link https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads ... 8/bb48.pdf


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:22 am 
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Does anyone know if this lower signal compartment existed, or was added to California and Tennessee by 1941? I think not, but the photo record is a bit indistinct. Had to use the FS graphic to illustrate.


Attachments:
CO class signals compartment, FS PE.jpg
CO class signals compartment, FS PE.jpg [ 318.39 KiB | Viewed 861 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:04 pm 
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Jeff Sharp wrote:
Here is a rare look down into the gun tubs on the forward fighting top of USS West Virginia. It's interesting to see how the fighting top was cutout to accommodate access to the gun tubs.


Thanks for sharing Jeff, I'm guessing the gun tubs were removed to install the radar?

*edit* I was also just thinking about the Colorado, pictures of her in this time period are pretty sparse (non-existent? That I can find at least). Is there any documentation to show if she retained the tubs or was having them removed at this time? I know your model (Jeff's) has the tubs and range clocks in MS1/5. I'll probably go that way with mine since I trust your research and it's something different.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:30 pm 
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Hi Abram,
The forward fighting top gun tubs and range clocks on Colorado were removed when she entered PSNY drydock for her major overhaul in Sept. ‘41.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:42 pm 
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"Bump" on my last question.

I've found a 1937 photo of California with what looks like lockers of some sort back there, but this not the same platform as with the Colorados. It's also not 1941.


Attachments:
USS California, Sept 9, 1937 80-CF-2055-24 crop sm.jpg
USS California, Sept 9, 1937 80-CF-2055-24 crop sm.jpg [ 309.13 KiB | Viewed 660 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:51 pm 
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Here's a shot of WeeVee, post-attack. There certainly looks like there is "something" there. You can see someone standing on what appears to be a platform even with the main deck.
Attachment:
80G32490.jpg
80G32490.jpg [ 658.54 KiB | Viewed 605 times ]

Attachment:
80G32490crop.jpg
80G32490crop.jpg [ 50.49 KiB | Viewed 605 times ]

All the shots I have of CA this day don't really show this area.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:57 pm 
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Here is a better photo of that area on WeeVee.
Attachment:
80G474937.jpg
80G474937.jpg [ 896.79 KiB | Viewed 605 times ]

Attachment:
80G474937crop.jpg
80G474937crop.jpg [ 112.75 KiB | Viewed 605 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:39 pm 
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Thx so much, Martin. WeeVee isn't really the question, as her 1941 plans show that platform as seen in the Five Star photo. I'm assuming that MD and CO have that as well. It's CA, and TN, that I'm trying to discern.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:32 am 
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The first 2 shots Martin posted are of California not West Virginia.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:51 am 
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Jeff Sharp wrote:
The first 2 shots Martin posted are of California not West Virginia.

Thanks Jeff - my bad. I missed the fact there wasn't a big a$$ ship behind her. :doh_1:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:45 am 
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Martin's 2nd posting is typical of all the abeam shots of CA around this time - the area in question is blocked by a service craft.

So, I was ready to accept a bunch of lockers around the base of the bulkhead on CA until I went back to the Doyle book on California (great reference book, btw) one more time to look at an overhead taken of her while under repair at Pearl Harbor in July, 1942. I scanned and enlarged the area in question.

To me, it sure looks like that compartment really was added at some point. The shape matches the plan (and part D20 on the 1/700 kit). I've cropped and rotated a section of the plan to match the angle. Your opinions sought.


Good thing I promised myself not to be obsessive over this.


Attachments:
USS California BB-44, PHNY, July 18, 1942 sm.jpg
USS California BB-44, PHNY, July 18, 1942 sm.jpg [ 346.42 KiB | Viewed 487 times ]
USS California BB-44, PHNY, July 18, 1942 object crop .jpg
USS California BB-44, PHNY, July 18, 1942 object crop .jpg [ 346.89 KiB | Viewed 487 times ]
USS WVbb48-7 midsection plan rotated crop sm.jpg
USS WVbb48-7 midsection plan rotated crop sm.jpg [ 100.86 KiB | Viewed 487 times ]
USS WVbb48-7 midsection plan crop.jpg
USS WVbb48-7 midsection plan crop.jpg [ 372.04 KiB | Viewed 487 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:03 pm 
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Since it's looking like all three Colorados and California had it would Tennessee have also had this structure then?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:51 am 
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ArizonaBB39 wrote:
Since it's looking like all three Colorados and California had it would Tennessee have also had this structure then?


Looking at photos, most likely

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:40 am 
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Dan,

Scoured my image collections, here is the best I could come up with-

Image
Slightly better quality crop from original used in Doyle book

Image
Here is the California in 1940

Image
Close up crop of area in question

Still hard to say, there are a couple of movies of her in Dry dock looking right at what we are looking for however equipment blocks the view.I would imagine that unless a Navy blueprint from that era comes to light, you won't be wrong in adding it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:07 pm 
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In your last photo, there is a ladder coming up from to the boat deck that cinches it for me. It looks like it terminates on a platform even with the deck below.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:00 pm 
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I stumbled upon some ‘41 California plans. I don’t know the source or validity of them but they show nothing there but lockers.

Image

Martin,
Perhaps this helps explain why it appears that ladder terminates where it does.
In this shot of the area, you can see the ladder but there is also a locker on the out board side hiding the bottom portion of the ladder.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:00 pm 
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There are so few, unblocked views of that area. It's frustrating. As best I can tell, the upper ladder portion to the mid level landing was always in that position; the bottom ladder's placement may have varied over time, depending on what, if anything, was at the base of the bulkhead.

I also have a copy of that '41 plan, but it's origin, as you point out, is unknown. I suspect it's just someone's line drawing.

Matt's posted 1940 pics (thank you) do seems to show a large solid object at the base of the bulkhead, clearly taller than the sailor in front of it. Assuming it was a compartment such as I have proposed, then the angle of the light on that particular bulkhead would account for the difference in appearance from the curved surface above it.

I guess it's all a matter of interpretation at this point. I'm going to go with that additional compartment.

Thank you all for your help. Much appreciated.


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