The Ship Model Forum

I use to have a 600 scale Repulse a long time ago but it met with misfortune - I have my 2400 scale though (Repulse top/Renown bottom - still need to paint)

Hey guys,

I recently acquired a 1/700 Trumpy HMS Renown (1942) and wanted to know just how accurate it is. From the review here it seems its rather good save for some small errors like...

- Missing radars (no big deal)
- Lower hull is off (I'm water lining it so no big deal)
- B-turret is shaped wrong but the others are OK? Can someone please explain that one?

Questions:
- Is the forward DCT correctly shaped? It seems to have to very thin but tall "vertical wings" on the sides that seem wrong to me. If not then what is it? I though the rangefinder was at the bottom of the DCTs? Granted I'm not that knowledgeable on RN equipment just yet. Were the cruiser and BB DCTs different?

- The review mentions, "The upper edge of the torpedo bulge is too sharp; Renown should not have a visible armor belt."
Can anyone elaborate/explain that part please. I can't really tell from photos what the issue is and it sounds like its rather glaring and one I'd like to address if possible.

- How do the hangar doors roll up as I'd like to display them open especially since Trumpy provided interiors. Do they roll up like Belfast's (and many others) with the rolled portion stowed on the exterior upper edge or some other way?

- Am I looking at the anchor stocks in the hawse pipes or did Trumpy just get lazy and stop molding chains and just put a stick in the pipes? Also, did she (and the RN in general) ever install anything similar to what the USN calls turtlebacks over their pipes?

- Are there any other errors not mentioned in the review?

Any and all help is appreciated as always,
-Mike

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Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

Can anyone clarify the extent of Renown's wooden decks in the 1940s please? Looks like its the entire main deck, hangar deck, and the 01 Level. After the 1943 refit where she lost her aircraft it appears that she also lost some of her wooden decks but I'm finding conflicting info.

One drawing (1943) shows wood ONLY on the main deck aft around turret 3.

Another (claiming to reflect her from 1944-45) shows wood on the main deck forward (not aft), the former hangar deck, and on the after portion of the 01 Level but NOT the forward portion.

So, which is correct if any? Are these goofs? Were there more changes "in the field" so to speak? Ideas guys?


One thing I want to point out about the Trumpy 1/700 Renown (1942) kit. Its the only injected kit I've found so far that molded the wooden decks PROPERLY, IE the wood is depicted as sitting ON TOP of the metal decks with a distinct yet subtle rise where the two meet. Finally someone noticed that

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Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

Not quite sure about the descriptive terminology being used, but Renown's upperdeck was a continuous planked span, from just abaft the anchor-cable capstans (forward of the breakwater), to the shelter deck bulkhead under and abaft main 15" turret B.

The shelter deck itself was also planked from B barbette aft, until it met with the ship's six pairs of twin 4.5" BD mountings--three per side (which were themselves surrounded with steel plating). This is confirmed by close-up photography of the area.

The upperdeck in the area of the catapult break did have areas planked in wood, but it is not clear how much of this was still left, once the area was dedicated to boat stowage. It may also have been painted, which sometimes makes it difficult to distinguish the planked areas clearly.

Further planking of the shelter deck was present abaft the cat break--again, except for the rows of 4.5" BD mountings--two per side--along the edges of the shelter. It was present over various areas of the entire aft shelter deck. Her quarterdeck (which was at main deck level) was also wood-planked, and this is confirmed by photographs of the area taken during the war.

The diagrams should not be relied on, especially if they do not agree with one another. I'd say the only question becomes one of how much wood was still laid on the catapult/boat deck area.

I don't understand "OI level" but I do not believe the ship featured any major areas of planked steel above the shelter decks, fore and aft of the catapult/boat area abaft the hangars.

FWIW...

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Danny DON'T "waterline"...!

Sorry, I'm using USN terms as I am unfamiliar with the RN terms.

Here's one of the drawings that's confusing me (it claims its from 1944): http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints-depot/ships/cruisers-uk/hms-renown-1944-batttlecruiser.gif

It shows wood on the forward deck around A Turret, the former catapult deck, and around the after 4.5" guns. It shows NO wood around B Turret and the forward 4.5" guns or on the after deck around Y Turret. ALL of these decks had wood following the 1939 refit. Is this drawing correct?

For a visual reference Phil Reeder's model clearly shows all the decks that had wood during 1942: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/hms/renown-350-pr/pr-index.html

Main question is did she ever lose any of her wood during the 1940s and if so where and when?

_________________
Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

So all my sources present conflicting information for the number or 20mm gun tubs. Also, some suggest they are the flat face variety and others say the round. Still other say there aren't even tubs in certain locations.
The Kagero book 3d history diagram has been my reference for this build. It specifies only 4 tubs. 2 on the forward first level on either side of the main tower and 2 aft on the raised structure up the double stairs and a bit back.
Other models and sources specify 8 tubs. 4 as above, but 4 more....2 below the forward tubs but on the main deck and 2 more below the aft tubs also on the main deck. Some sources say 2 more tubs hanging around the midships area for a total of 10.

So is there a straight answer for this?

Also:
The Trumpeter kit has these weird little walls that sit behind any ships boats that are along the edge of the hull. These seem completely fictional. What are they? what are they supposed to represent? I've opted to not include them. My guess is that they're a dreadful attempt at depicting the crew nets between the davits. Beats me.
Any info would greatly help.
Thanks in advance!
c

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Every time the PE sticks to your tweezers, you lose a minute off your life.

The 20mm gun tub question is a bit of a can of worms as far as I can tell. I don't have a straight answer for you either and it probably varied with time. Your best bet on this one is to get in touch with RNfanDan (or wait until he replies here).

Those walls you refer to, are they by any chance either side of "A" turret and again either side of "Y" turret? Those aren't boat davits, they are davits for the accommodation ladders (somewhat overscale). Those "walls" are mediocre attempts at representing said accommodation ladders.

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Vlad

It's been awhile, but I did lots of research when I built my 1/350 HMS Repulse.

One of my resources was the "Calling All Ship Fans" thread ref Repulse, which led me to Dr. Fock's fine model and to RNFanDan. I built my rendition by correcting the kit and adding those details that RNFanDan and I determined would be needed for an accurate 1941 rendition. You can find my model in the Gallery, and when you do, you will see a list of all the things I did. There may be more that could be done today, but I think I used all of the information available at that time. You may not want to do all of the things that I did, but at least they are there for you to decide. I think the article also lists my aftermarket sources--not sure; like I said it's been awhile. HTH.

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http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... uck-Bauer/

Thanks guys.
Just had a look at your fine model. It pretty much confirms that I'm on the right track. Aside from some minor differences my model is a clone of yours. I see you went with 4 tubs. That's what I'm going to do as well. Also, I see you didn't use the dumb little boat walls. Ditto for me.
I noticed that you used a different radar at the top of the main tower. What is that? It doesn't appear in my sources. Any info?
c

_________________
Every time the PE sticks to your tweezers, you lose a minute off your life.

About the radar sets, Derek Howse in Radar at Sea says HMS Repulse had one Type 284 surface gunnery set installed in July 1941 at Rosyth and one Type 286P aerial fitted (at Freetown) "on a short mast which could be stepped on top of the Air Defence Position." Her Type 286P set was the first radar in Force Z to to detected the Japanese air attackers.

On Chuck's excellent model, the antenna on the spotting top matches Type 291, which Norman Friedman in Naval Radar says was introduced in 1942.

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If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, [atmospheric] CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 385 ppm to at most 350 ppm.
Dr James Hansen, NASA, 2008.

Thank you for the nice comments about my model, gentlemen.
I checked my Gallery post and, yes, it is a 291 aerial. I scratch built the aerial from 15 pieces of wire, using materials supplied by RNFanDan. If I remember correctly, the 291 aerial was part of the 286 radar.
Unfortunately, the best photo I had of my aerial is part of an article I sold to a magazine, which has yet to be published. Hopefully, the pics in the Model Warships Gallery will be of some use.

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http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... uck-Bauer/

Just remember there arnt 2 tubs next to the front rangefinder. Many get that wrong. Theres no photos of them. Theres no supports for them to be there in the first place. Their existence seems to stem from the incorrect Profile Morskie that the kit makers drew from. Pm rnfandan and check out the casf thread.

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"The vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice."
Washington DC, 27 October, 2003. President George W Bush

For all things "Repulse" related, RN FAN DAN is your man. Chuck Bauer, like myself, built our models
with Dan's invaluable input.
Tim.

Can you elaborate on this? I can't find any pictures that prove nay or yay for this detail.
This picture is the only thing I can find, and I'm not sure what I'm seeing. It *looks* like it's just a railing with a windbreak on it without any kind of tub or flaring out. Hm.

_________________
Every time the PE sticks to your tweezers, you lose a minute off your life.

Hi Sargentx,

because Alan helped me much with my Repulse, I can explain and show what he means...

Here on photo the red arrow Shows where Trumpeter wants to set left and right of the range finder a 20mm Oerlikon. This is wrong, because there were no by fact.



Repulse had 7 x 20mm Oerlikons as sources tell:

- 2 in a tube left and right at front deck house on that deck level like Trumpeter tells position correct (the deck level of turret n° 2 ... this steel deck which Trumpeter's painting instruction tells to paint in wood brown)
- 2 in a tube left and right at the rear deck house at the aft where you have to make the necessary deckhouse correction - not the 2 before nearer to the hangar!
- 2 on top of aft turret (n° 3), but without the tubes!
- 1 single on the first level platform of back mast where searchlights are, in position of showing to the stern



All other Oerlikons which Trumpeter wants to make on kit are wrong.

_________________
The advantage of wisdom is that you can play dumb; conversely, it is more difficult.

Okay great....
Just to clarify: there are no tubs near the hangars.
-2 on the 2nd turret level as per trumpeter
-2 aft and up the stairs near the deckhouse corrections
-2 20 mm on top of aft turret without tubs
- One located on the aft mast searchlight platform. Does this one have a tub?

_________________
Every time the PE sticks to your tweezers, you lose a minute off your life.

Correct ... and no, this one in the mast has no tube but shield. All the (good!) sources tell 7 Oerlikons and n°7 was the problem where it is. By chance I found a photo in Internet when looking for details of the Walrus planes on board (planes are not my world in modelling) which shows this Oerlikon in the mast.
I must search again and when I find, I will show of course ( I had a hard disk error and the photos I had on were not all saved externally).

_________________
The advantage of wisdom is that you can play dumb; conversely, it is more difficult.

great....
I think I'm screwed with the tubs on either side of the range-finder/radar. I'm king of late in the build to remove them. it might be disastrous. Hopefully this detail isn't a model ruiner.
damn.

_________________
Every time the PE sticks to your tweezers, you lose a minute off your life.

Since Dan seems to be dormant, let me chip in. The only serious debate in the past has been whether Repulse had 6 or 8 Oerlikons. Having reviewed all the available photos in various books, online and at the IWM I came to the conclusion she carried only 6 despite the official return CB 01815B saying she carried 8.

The platform high on the aft superstructure/low on the aft mast just above the searchlights was the location of two quad 0.5 MGs. I would be very interested to see the photo Christian refers to showing anything different in this area.

This account by one of her professional Gunners confirms the number of Oerlikons as 6 and 0.5" as 4:

http://www.warship.org/no11986.htm

Hi all ... sorry for the huge delay, but I was more as busy and sent to France because a tax Audit in our plant.

However, I tried to found this damned picture showing the 7. Oerlikon on the mast platform, but I failed.

Sure and more as confirmed by a bunch of photos are 6 x 20mm Oerlikons as told and written before. Trumpeter wants to set too much of them on Repulse ... aside the other errors as at rear deck house for example.

_________________
The advantage of wisdom is that you can play dumb; conversely, it is more difficult.