Calling all IJN Tosa (??) BB and Amagi (??) class BC fans

[Sauragnmon]

Amagi battlecruiser class kits (updated 10/9/2018)

1/700

2011 Fujimi issued

Amagi, 1923-24
Item #401041, SWM (EX) � 41, projected as-designed configuration, released March, 2011
Item #401089, SWM (EX) � SP8, projected as-designed configuration, DX version with main gun brass barrels released August, 2011
Item #432250, SWM (EX) � 46, EX-1, projected as-designed configuration, Special version with photo etch parts included, released October, 2018

Akagi, 1923-24
Item #401164, SWM (EX) � 41, projected as-designed configuration, released March, 2012
Item #401095, SWM (EX) � SP18, projected as-designed configuration, DX version with main gun brass barrels released March, 2013


Gallery (added 7-5-2018)

Amagi built by Kostas Katseas: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Amagi from Won-hui Lee: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

Akagi kitbash from Qiao Liang: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm




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So, here's the biggest thing.

We know there were two in build, Kaga and Tosa. Kaga was saved from the scrapyard by the death of the Amagi, and became one of the carriers with the largest capacity in the war.

We know they were a planned improved Nagato, with 5T2 16" L/45 main battery.

What else do we have? Anybody got images, writeups, information? I'm considering a build, myself, so I'm trying to get as informed as possible.

[chuck]

Tosa's hull was essentially finished and launched, and some battleship superstructure was in place when order came down to stop construction pending Washington Treaty negotiations. While the treaty negotiations were taking place, she was fitted with a small temporary wooden wheel house on top of her conning tower, plus a small signaling mast, apparently to allow her to have some degree of navigation capability, probably under tow. She was also fitted with a small temporary funnel to allow her to run some of her boilers to preserve the installed equipment through the winter and provide heating to the caretaker crew. When the treaty was finalized, it was decided to expend her as a munition test target. These munition tests directly shaped IJN view of battleship protection that would later be incorporated into the Yamato. She was sunk in Tosa bay (where else) during target practice in 1924.

Tosa class is the only Japanese other battleship design besides the Yamato to exhibit the wavy sheerline that is characteristic of other types of Japanese warships during the interwar period. Tosa class is also the only flush decked Japanese dreadnought type battleship.

[Sauragnmon]

My main wonder is, where was that fifth turret planned to be... And I wonder if there are images out there of the Tosa. I really want to take a look at her.

It's part of my whole love of what-if.

[chuck]

The fifth turret is situated right abft the single funnel, somwhat like the arrangement in British 13.5" dreadnoughts like the Orion or Iron Duke.

[Dan K]

There are several photos and plans of Tosa/Kaga as launched and configured. Most are in the Fukui books. Let's see if I can figure how to post the 2 pics I have.

OK, Kaga as launched

[Dan K]

Tosa after launching

[Sauragnmon]

Alright, that answers that, about the turret. I'm actually considering a model of Kaga, as a battleship.

Next question - do we have any producers who manufacture Kaga in her early years, with the double flight deck? That would have the most likely replication of her hull line, that I can think of. I know in the revision stage they lengthened her hull, and that renders the standard Kaga models for the moment lower priority. I know there's one Japanese company that produces a Tosa, of rather mediocre grade (seen images), but it's in resin.

Also - Is there any idea of what the bridge pagoda might have looked like? In my case, I will probably use the Nagato bridge tower. I've heard the stack should be strait, conveniently if I recall, Nagato had one, in addition to her snaked stack.

Yes, I have every intent of cannibalizing a 1/700 Nagato for the majority of my parts necessity in this endeavour. The rest will probably be a Pit-road set of equipment. Does anybody know how many of the 16" turrets they put in those?

[chuck]

Tosa's pagoda mast would have been a 6 legged hexapod very similar to those on the Nagato. Nagato was completed with 2 straight, vertical stacks. The S shaped bent forestack was a later modification to keep the pagoda mast clear of smoke. Tosa's original design featured a single straight stack, located at the same place where Nagato's original forestack was. But in Tosa's case it was not completely vertical even in the initial design. Instead is leaned back at about 10 degrees.

[Dan K]

Tosa class plan drawing

[Dan K]

Tosa overhead after launch

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys & Girls, I have a partially built 1/350 scratchbuilt model of an Amagi class battlecruiser. I made this model from plasticard about 14 years ago, but I never finished it. From what I can remember, I had made everything except the main twin 16" turrets, their barrels, the AA guns, the searchlights and the ship's boats. It was an exercise in no cost (except for time) modelmaking, so I wonder if any of you out there can recommend some low-cost components to help me finish the model?

Should I post some pictures of the model here, is anyone is interested? The hull is waterline, about 29" long or 720mm long. Even though I had never finished the model, it had got me 2 jobs and 2 offered jobs as a full time professional modelmaker in the past 11 years.

By the way, the deck line isn't as wavy as the Tosa/Kaga, but there is a definite rise in sheer abreast the fore-funnel......

Terry (Caravellarella)

[Timmy C]

Between the new Hasegawa, Veteran, and other accessory sets, there should be more than enough to finish off your Amagi!

Here are some of the Hasegawa sets:
http://www.hlj.com/product/HSGQG18
http://www.hlj.com/product/HSGQG19

[Gernot]

Alright, that answers that, about the turret. I'm actually considering a model of Kaga, as a battleship.

Next question - do we have any producers who manufacture Kaga in her early years, with the double flight deck? That would have the most likely replication of her hull line, that I can think of. I know in the revision stage they lengthened her hull, and that renders the standard Kaga models for the moment lower priority.

Hi! Pitroad makes a 2-deck Kaga, but it is resin and very pricey---something like 18500 JPY. As you note, the hull was lengthened. Those changes are clearly described in the new Namiki Shobo book on IJN battleships and battlecruisers (presumably where Dan K <hi!> sourced his lovely drawing from).

[Dan K]

IMHO, the 16" turrets from the 1/350 Hasegawa Nagato/Mutsu would be appropriate to finish Amagi. Maybe Hasegawa customer service will accomodate you for extra turret. And yes, please post the pics.

[chuck]

Probably not for the Amagi in the original configuration. The 16" turrets from Hasagawa reflects the major modernization done in the mid 1930s to the turret sides, faceplate and roof to accommodate the increase in elevation. The original 8-8 turrets looked quite different with more roundly curving sides, lower face plate, and smoother roof, an much smaller range finder bulge.

There were also some sources that claim Amagi was destined to receive 50 caliber 16" guns, not the 45 caliber weapons in the Nagato and Tosa.

[Dan K]

But they can certainly be reworked, no?

[chuck]

But they can certainly be reworked, no?

Not easily. You will have to lower the turret roof, get rid of the existing steps between the overlapping roof plates and scribe a new one at a different location, round out the turret side wall since during the modernazation the Japanese made the turret slightly narrower by making the side wall straighter. You will also have to rework the gun barrel embrasure because in the original turret the embrasure is a hole completely inside the turret face plate, post modification it became a slot in the turret face plate that opens on the top. It would probably be easier to scratch build the turret than to modify the Hasagawa turrets to accurately reflect original 8-8 turret.

[Dan K]

You're right. I stand corrected.

[Sauragnmon]

Well, I never knew that about the original turrets - thanks for the info, Chuck, you're a wealth of information as always.

I actually started work on my own Amagi, 1/700 scale - Mirage Ocean's kit (Thanks Gernot!) - but I don't face the turret design problem, as I'm What-Iffing the model into service, as if Japan had actually built them. I figure that should provide a significant difference overall.

[Caravellarella]

Some images of my incomplete/abortive 1/350 scratchbuilt Amagi......

I've just taken these pictures just now, but I'm no photographer. Jim Baumann took some pictures of this model several years ago......

Terry (Caravellarella)