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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:17 am 
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hope this is the right place to talk about jean bart,richelieu w.w 2 vintage.i am thinking about starting to build jean bart in 1/192 or1/200 scale.does anyone know where i could find plans,poto-etch,fittings etc etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:45 pm 
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With the new Trumpeter kits hitting the market, I thought it appropriate to split Russ' post out into it's own thread.

Please chime in if I've missed anything, here's a partial list of kits of these fine looking ships, some of which I took from Rajen's List.

1/400 Heller Jean Bart
1/400 Heller Richelieu

1/700 HP Jean Bart
1/700 HP Richelieu
1/700 High Mold Richelieu
1/700 Trumpeter Richelieu

1/800 Del Jean Bart
1/800 Del Richelieu

A 1/700 Jean Bart has also been announced by Trumpeter, as has a 1/350 Richelieu. While I can't recall if the 1/350 Jean Bart has been announced, I imagine one would be forthcoming.

Here's some of the Richelieu and Jean Bart models on this site:
Peter O'Donnell's 1/400 Heller Richelieu

Roger Torgeson's 1/400 Heller Richelieu

Christoph Mentzel's 1/700 High Mold Richelieu and in another scheme here

Pierre Fourneau's 1/400 Heller Richelieu

Anthony Tow's 1/400 Heller Richelieu

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:48 pm 
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More...

Song Jung Gun's 1/200 Scratchbuilt Richelieu

Kjetil Lindahl's 1/400 Heller Richelieu

Claudio Matteini's 1/700 High Mold Richelieu

Joe Cano's 1/400 Heller Richelieu

Didier Michel's 1/400 Heller Richelieu

Bernd Villhauer's 1/400 Heller Jean Bart

Sebastien Berti's 1/400 Heller Jean Bart

Angeleye's WIP of the 1/700 Trumpeter Richelieu

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:50 pm 
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thanks for adding a link for jean bart,richelieu,i am torn between one or other,like looks of jean bart 1949 best so far,but richelieus rebuild in 1943 has u.s. a.a guns which are available from h.r fittings.also am wundering if she also had u.s type fire contol and radar


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:45 pm 
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A nice drawing of Jean Bart

Image



Jef :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:23 pm 
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That is a NICE CG drawing of Jean Bart. I had no idea of her armament mix... IMHO she is better looking than her sister. And Gascogne too...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:31 am 
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So am I correct in assuming then that the Jean Bart had additional heavy AA on her broadside, what appears to be double the quantity on Richelieu? I guess when I do my work on the Germanized version, it will require work, notably in the lighter AA, to properly redesign it, since the 37mm guns would be smaller than the 40mm positions, and conversely, the 20mm would be larger.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:42 am 
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when richelieu went to the usa she had american qaud 40,s and 20 mm,s added.jean bart
in 1949 had100mm,s and57 mm,s plus 20mm,s
still looking for plans for j.b. found some on internet,from french defence ministry but all in french. also they listed at 1/100 but is that metric or feet and inches.
would appreciate any leads on 1/192 or 1/200 plans 1/192 would be best


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:37 am 
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heres a cool pic of jean bart and richelieu together
Image


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:11 pm 
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The computer images of Jean Bart are very nice but... hate to say it again - wrong! Jean Bart was fitted with torpedo bulges and had an increased witdh at the waterline - 3 meters more than Richelieu. The bulge is hard to spot on photos because it blends well with the hull contours but it is still a feature that cannot be neglected. I am really curious whether Trumpeter have included this major "detail" in their recent 1/700 model.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:33 pm 
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Actually, it's very hard to tell if the images are wrong because the way Jean Bart's new torpedo defenses are designed and the angle of the CG drawing. Jean Bart's new torpedo defenses are not an external add-on bulge like most retrofitted torpedo bulges. Instead the French actually dismantled the original internal torpedo defense of Jean Bart, and built a new, deeper internal torpedo defense system in its place by pushing the underwater sides of the ship outwards. So the new defense is completely integrated into the internal structure of the ship, faired smoothly into the side of the ship, and there are no easily detectable seams where the original lines of the ship ends and modified sides begins. The above water hull line of Jean Bart is essentially unaltered and identical to Richelieu's. Starting from the waterline, the sides of Jean Bart's hull smoothly turns outwards to provide the additional depth. The sides of Richelieu continues straight down.

The image of the Richelieu, on the left, certainly seems to show the correct rectangular hull section midships. The image of Jean Bart, on the right, is at a bad angle for seeing whether the model incorporated the new expanded underwater sides.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:45 am 
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I disagree,you can see the bulges above the waterline.It's subtle but visible in photographs.Jean Bart has a different look to her hull sides because of it.At Netmarine you can see pictures of Jean Bart with the bulges visible above the waterline.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:16 pm 
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I can't tell by the foggy pictures I've found but if Iwanted to make the Jean Bart as she was when attacked by U.S. forces during Op. Torch, would I want the Trumpeter Jean Bart(1950) or the Richilieau kit?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:28 pm 
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hey guess guess what guys ,i think i got it fiqured out,on the french navy site found good stuff

http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defens ... php?id=227 all in french but pretty darn good.most plans in 1/100 i am building in 1/192,but with a lot of head scrathing and lots of printer paper i got a nice set of hull drawings in 1/192.on my printer i went to 52% and the size came out to lenth of 50.6", and beam of7".when you add 1/8" all around for sheeting in comes to lenght 813.6ft and beam of116ft over the bulges
the web site has lots of drawings :smallsmile: very nice :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:34 pm 
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in op. torch jean bart had no bulges, they were added during her 1946-49 rebuild,so if one wanted to model her as 1942 you would use richilieu.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:43 pm 
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Thanks Russ, now just to pick the kit...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:45 pm 
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heres a picture of plans done on my printer 20 sheets of paper,underneath is massachusetts scratch built 1/192 scale
Image]


Last edited by russclark on Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:57 pm 
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Jeffcsr wrote:
I can't tell by the foggy pictures I've found but if Iwanted to make the Jean Bart as she was when attacked by U.S. forces during Op. Torch, would I want the Trumpeter Jean Bart(1950) or the Richilieau kit?



The Richelieu. Besides the bulge, In 1942 Jean Bart's tower bridge design was also nearly identical to Richelieu's. Only after the war was her tower bridge was drastically truncated to the low squat design you see in the computer rendering.

BTW, in 1942 Jean Bart was far from complete, almost all her secondary armaments were missing, her B turret had no roof and no guns, and her directors on top of her tower bridge were also largely missing, and the internal communication tube was exposed. In addition she had a float plane hanger on the fantail as per her original design. So you will have a lot of scratch building to do.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:59 pm 
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When the Richelieu comes out in 1/350, I intend to back date that all the way to the original 1939 design of the ship, which featured 2 more wing 6" turrets midship, and a aircraft hanger in the back.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:28 am 
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i have started to build jean bart in 1/192 ,i was wondering if there would be any intrest in me posting my progress on to build board.Image


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