The Ship Model Forum

There are probably plans of Seidlitz in the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich
and probably photos of her there too. You can contact them here
http://www.nmm.ac.uk
I believe much of the German archive was split between the allies after WWII. Their plans are of course builder's drawings so are of course large and expensive when compared to modeller's plans. But they are excellent and the staff at nmm are extremely helpful.
Another place worth trying is for photographs is the Imperial War museum
http://www.iwm.org.uk
They have this photo of Seidlitz
http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/dbtw-w ... 0&FG=0&QS=

Honorable Forum Members !

I was recently looking through the drawings of HMV cardboard model of SMS Derfflinger and found an issue which I can not resolve even using available large-scale photos of the ship. There are a lot of round hatches on the main deck which I assume to be coal - loading hatches, covered with well-drawn "caps". However near those there are round objects of unknown nature (and similar size) which are painted in a way which makes me believe these are light hatches. They look like round "windows" in the deck, with "glass" inserted and some support structure in the shape of three-beam star inside (just like Mercedes sign). I would be extremely grateful to anyone who can explain purpose of these (whether I am right about light hatches or these are, say, opened coal hatches)

Thank you in advance

...

ingura, Thank you very much. Sorry it took me so long to get back to the forum - unfortunatey we are not always owners of our time . Your answer makes things perfectly clear.
Since the scale I intend to use is 1/200 the precise nature of metal is not that important. As to the actual use - i will once again look through the photos. I may be rather naive but I believe that HMV had good chances to access some original drawings (if these were not victims of air raids in 44-45).

Once again - thank you for the guidance.

Hello guys,

May I ask you a question ? we could not clearly see the details on the top mast for the SMS Derfflinger ship ,so can anyone tell me which drawing is corret on the picture ?

Thank you so much for your help!

That is a good question. On a photo of Derfflinger I find the foremast has the yard arms angled forward and the mainmast I can not tell due to the angle. A photo of her after Jutland shows clearly angled forward on the foremast, again the mainmast can not be seen.
These yard arms on German BC's appear moveable. Both in an up and down and in a fore and aft direction. Some examples of other German Capital Ships.
Freidrich der Grosse: foremast: angled aft / mainmast: angled forward. another of the same vessel shows them both with no angle to the masts. Clearly this means they were moveable and not always in the same position.
Markgraf: Foremast: angled directly aft. Mainmast: angled slightly aft.
Seydlitz in a fine profile picture: Foremast: angled slightly aft. Mainmast: angled slightly forward.
Various Light Cruisers: many different positions are shown, even on the same ship

So clearly they were moveable and kept in various positons. But it seems common for the foremast to angle back and the mainmast to angle forward.

Bob B.

Here is a question for the model builders from kits. The German Battle Crusisers are my favorite ships. I have not made models in a long time, I used to build kits from the box and add a few minor improvements. I am not experienced with adding the photo etched parts one can buy for boxed kits.

My question is, who make the best boxed kit of any of the German BC's and if you were to build it, who makes the best photo etched parts kit to upgrade the model?
I have seen some 1/350 scale Russian kits for sale that look very fine out of the box and would appear perfect to upgrade with photo etched parts.

Can a well experienced model builder who has done some German BC's recommend a kit and photo etch parts set to put togther for a nice result? I like both 1/700 and 1/350. But since my experience level is now quite low, a larger 1/350 would be easier for me to work on.

Any suggestions?

Bob B.

I would go with Combrig SMS Seydlitz. I have the kit as waterline version I and love it.
Very easy cleanup before assembly.
PE set for ICM`s König from WEM or GMM will be needed. Metal barrels are awailable from Germany.

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Mikko Saarela

Measure twice, cut once. Measuring once could be quicker...

I thought it might be fun to build the SMS Goeben for 2014 US IPMS Nationals (thought I saw that they were having a World War 1 theme prize). Did a little research, and found that NNT had produced a kit a few years back. Went looking for one for sale at my usual sources, and couldn't find one (NNT, FreeTime, Great Models, Dragon, HobbyLink Japan, others). Anyone have suggestions on who might still have a kit in stock? Perhaps it's easier to get in Germany? Does anyone else make a Goeben kit?

Thanks.

Hello

In the next weeks, my Flyhawk Derfflinger should arrive.

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=155110

I have some questions about it.

1.- Was closed the bridge at Jutland battle as it was in 1918?
2.- What are these objects? Are they correct for Jutland?
3.- Do I need the telemeter?

I allowed myself to use a picture of the George Pék’s fantastic model

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/sms/Defflinger-700-gp/

Hi mpgl62,

Here's what I think about the things in question.

1. I am pretty sure that the unarmoured conning position in front of the conning tower had a roof all through the ship's carreer, i.e. at Jutland as well.
2. The objects encircled are coaling winches. They were surely used in 1916 but I am not entirely certain that they were there all the time - they may have been detachable - in the picture taken after the battle showing the damaged superstructure they're notably absent.
3. The rangefinder must have been there at Jutland, too.

Hope this helps

George Pék

Thanks

Got my 1/700 Flyhawk Derfflinger from Free Time today. I didn't order the brass barrel version. The kit has an awful lot in it for $29.95 US. It does include a metal hull weight, a PE sheet, and a decal sheet in addition to the polystyrene parts. Instructions were on glossy paper in color including a suggested painting scheme. The sheet is a bit small, but if you can't read fine print then you probably can't build this kit anyway. Instructions are half in English, half in Kanji. This is the first plastic ship that I've bought that had hollow single piece funnel stacks -- I can only begin to imagine how those must have been injection molded. I won't miss having to fill and smooth seams on two part funnels. Only looked at the kit at a high level. Noticed that the deck doesn't have molded anchor chains to sand off (the PE includes anchor chain). Deck planking divisions are raised, but just slightly (not recessed). Secondary casemate batteries are all separate disks with a separate barrel (so you can point the secondary guns in various directions and elevate the barrels at your pleasure). The box art shows a ringed antenna (may not have given it the right name - two disks with antenna wire running in parallel between them) located between the bow and foremast. I've seen other models of SMS battlecruisers and never saw these (thought only the British used them). Also, I've never seen them foreward of the foremast. Usually between the foremast and mainmast. Anybody care to post a link to a rigging plan for Derfflinger?

I have this 3D schematic for Lutzow. Can anyone offer something similar for pre-Jutland Derfflinger?

The new 1/700 Flyhawk Derfflinger came with a PE fret that is about 60% four bar railing stock (a deck bar and three actual railing bars). Most of the photos that I've found of WW1 German battlecruisers seem to show chain railings (perhaps two bar railing equivalent - a top chain and a middle chain). In some curvier deck edge spaces, e.g. around searchlight platforms, it looks like it might be rigid two bar instead of chain railing. I'm not seeing much three bar in any photos.

Can some of you experts confirm/clarify the railing situation?

Thanks.

I believe that the enclosure of this conning position was removed at Jutland. I can't confirm exactly for Derfflinger, but it was definitely removed on Seydlitz and I have been told in other threads that it was removed on all German BCs for that battle. If anyone has pictures proving it was there (or similarly pictures proving it wasn't) that would be fantastic.

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Vlad

Hello everyone,

This is my first time posting on this forum so please forgive any lack of forum-question etiquette.

I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find detailed drawings or plans of the interior of the German battlecruiser Goeben. I am looking for as detailed plans as possible. I would at least hope to find detailed drawings of the primary turrets, boiler rooms, machinery rooms, etc. I have looked all over the web, in many books, and I've contacted a number of museums and archives in German and Turkey but so far nothing has turned up. Any assistance would be much appreciated. Ich spreche Deutsch auch.

Best wishes,

Ryan Noppen

With my nearly finished Lützow from Flyhawk I started with their Derfflinger.
I would like to build the ship as a 1915 configuration during the tests with the plane.
I have Gary Staff's wonderfull book about German BCs and realized there is probably a problem in the kit.
On my pic you see the 15 cm casemates. And in the book it seems that at least No 5 has also no cutout on the upper deck like No 4.
Can someone confirm it?
And what is with No 2 and 3?
On the pics with the Jutland battle damage there are the cutouts on 2 and 3.
But on older pics it seems there where none. But the pics are to small to clarify it.
Perhaps someone has more insight than me?

Greetings Christian

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At work:
1/700 SMS Elsass 1905
1/700 Fujimi IJN Shokaku 1941
1/700 Fujimi IJN Nagato 1941
1/700 Aoshima IJN Hayasui 1944
1/700 Aoshima IJN Yukikaze 1945
1/700 Rainbowmodel Fuyuzuki 1945

You know that Lutzow has seven, not six, of the 15 cm per side, right? Just want to be sure that this isn't a counting issue.

Dave

Yes of course, the pic shows my Derfflinger with 6 gun per side.

Greetings Christian

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At work:
1/700 SMS Elsass 1905
1/700 Fujimi IJN Shokaku 1941
1/700 Fujimi IJN Nagato 1941
1/700 Aoshima IJN Hayasui 1944
1/700 Aoshima IJN Yukikaze 1945
1/700 Rainbowmodel Fuyuzuki 1945