The Ship Model Forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g74ma4vxYDA I found this, but doesn't have Ramillies. Had QE and KGV class wearing the same camo scheme.

Sovereign Hobbies has already chimed in on this thread and doesn't have any input on the Arkhangelsk.

Thanks for posting the link. I don't think there is a King George V class ship on that video clip. The ships seem to be two USN destroyers, either QUILLIAM or ROTHERAM, SUFFOLK, GAMBIA, RENOWN, ILLUSTRIOUS, LONDON, GAMBIA (again), Suffolk (again), a Q class destroyer (probably QUIBERON), a "U" class destroyer (? - can't read the pennant number), an "N" class destroyer, QUEEN ELIZABETH, two more destroyers, RENOWN (again), ILLUSTRIOUS, LONDON (again), VALIANT, RICHELIEU, another Colony class, TROMP and BIRMINGHAM. It's fair to assume that most of the sequences were taken just after the Operation TRANSOM, the air strike on Sourabaya in May 1944, in which case the USN ships were CUMMINGS and FANNING, the second Colony class was KENYA and the "N" class was NEPAL or VAN GALEN.

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That film clip is the BEST reason for NOT caring about the exact shade of any particular colour !

The ships were all sailing by under basically the same lighting conditions and look at all the differences in colours.

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Video of Ramillies and other battleships in the Med, 1940, starting at the 8:41 mark:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060007639

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

While researching HMS Royal Oak to build a model I came across the following photos that raise some questions which may be of interest to modellers?

All the plans and models I have seen of HMS Royal Oak thus far depict her shelter deck as being finished with deck planking. However the following photos on the Imperial War Museum website would seem to disprove that theory. The shelter deck (during the First World War at least...) appears to be finished in steel plating as seen here:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205252989
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205252990
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205252499


I intend to model the Royal Oak as seen following her 1934-1936 refit. The only photos of the shelter deck from that era that I can find currently are on Page 178 of R.A. Burt’s British Battleships 1919-1945. These show the general area but it is difficult to clearly see the decking due to all the various clutter. The small portions of the deck that are visible still appear to be steel plated and not planked, which seems logical enough. It would seem unlikely (but not impossible) that the area was retrospectively deck-planked during a refit?

Can anyone shed any additional light on whether her shelter deck was steel plated or deck planked post 1934-1936 refit? My money is on steel plating for now in the absence of any additional evidence. Thanks.

Royal Oak was Devonport ship. The Devonport Naval Heritage Centre in the South Yard contains a number of artefacts from the dockyard's history. Amongst them is an old model (about 4ft long) of her immediately after her 1934-36 modernisation. It shows a dark grey steel, not wooden, shelter deck.

Thanks for that, I did not know of the Devonport Naval Heritage Centre. You learn something every day. I must keep it in mind and try and arrange a visit whenever I am next in the U.K.

I did some further searching on the IWM website over the weekend and found this photo. It is HMS Revenge and not HMS Royal Oak but it clearly shows Revenge having a steel plated shelter deck in 1940:
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205135890

I will go with a steel shelter deck so. Thanks again.

Noted on HobbyEasy site

A new Orange Hobby kit in 1/700 of HMS Royal Oak if like other Orange Hobby kits it should be of good standard.

At a glance can anyone tell what Royal Sovereign was painted as seen here while she was still Arkhangelsk? Appears to be a two tone scheme, dark hull and lighter upperworks. The funnel is even lighter.

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BUILDING

1/350 British pre-dreadnought battleship HMS Agamemnon

I used Humbrol No. 5 Admiralty Grey Gloss for the hull and Humbrol No. 196 Light Grey Satin for the superstructure and upperworks on mine. Then Humbrol No. 125 US Dark Grey Satin for the steel decks. All sealed with a coat of Humbrol Matt cote. The colours are a pure guess on my part, I have no idea how accurate or not the shades are?

Thanks MrChurch. I will improvise the greys. You have an impressive model there. I've never attempted diorama water but yours looks fantastic and 1/500 is a nice scale for such a project... How did you make the hull waterline? (I've already started my hull and glued the halves together.

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BUILDING

1/350 British pre-dreadnought battleship HMS Agamemnon

Thanks Spopovich. Simple answer is I did not waterline the hull, the full lower hull is actually still there but out of sight below water level.

I carefully prepared the hole in the base and matched the ship up to it. Then finally filling in any remaining gaps with Artist's Medium and cotton wool. Water methods are as per this excellent tutorial here from sargentx:
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=155661

I posted this in the 'Camouflage and Coatings' section of the board but am re-posting it here to help keep information on the 'R' Class in the one place:

A lovely clear photo here showing the Port Side of H.M.S. Revenge in August 1941 in dazzle camouflage while on Convoy Escort Duty:

https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.php?acc=1975-03-63-4-58

Again I posted this in the 'Camouflage and Coatings' section of the board but am re-posting it here to help keep information on the 'R' Class in the one place:

I recently bought the Imperial War Museum's 'Royal Navy at War' DVD Box set and was pleasantly surprised to find a special feature on H.M.S. Royal Sovereign at the end of the 'Know Your Own Navy' DVD. Sorry I can't post a link as I think it is currently out of production and i cannot find a permanent link to it. I got mine on Ebay.

Anyway the special feature is a five minute colour film sequence showing scenes featuring the crew on board H.M.S. Royal Sovereign, I estimate sometime in 1940-42. It was not listed in the description of the DVD so came as a pleasant surprise. There are multiple short sequences, as no doubt colour film was outrageously expensive in the early 1940s. No overall views of the ship as it was filmed from on board her but you can clearly see the vivid contrast in the colours of her camouflage scheme. It almost looks black and white in some scenes despite it being colour film, bearing in mind all the usual caveats when trying to judge warship colours from old film.

You can see the Quadruple PomPom on top of one of her turrets in one scene. I am not sure exactly when these were fitted to Royal Sovereign? They were not there in 1940 but were there by October 1941 as seen in photos on the Imperial War Museum Website. So that puts that particular sequence sometime between 1940 and October 1942 when she went to Philadelphia for overhaul. Again there are multiple short sequences and no dates are given so they could have been filmed over a number of months or years?

All told a valuable reference and well worth a look for anyone interested in the 'R' Class.

Interesting. This photo is dated October 1941 and she seems to have them in place then?
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205140097


(Edited to correct hyperlink)

They are not listed in her entry in the 6 monthly armament return promulgated April 1941 but are listed in the October 1941 one (correct to 30th September). Presumably they were fitted during her late summer refit that year.

Thanks Dick. That narrows it down. According to R.A. Burt's book she was refitted May-June 1941 in Norfolk Navy Yard in the U.S.A. and then again in August 1941 in Glasgow. So yes it would seem she gained the quadruple PomPoms during one of those refits, Glasgow seeming more likely.

Just goes to show how light their anti-aircraft armament was at the start of the Second World War. Four Four Inch Twin Mounts, two Octuple PomPoms and two Quadruple Vickers Machine Guns. And that was all. Maybe the Royal Marines would have had GPMGs that could have been improvised on tripods and used as well?

But still, all told, very light AA Armament. Handy for the modeller though, saves a lot of building.

And narrowing it down further still maybe, 6 Sep 41:

https://www.maritimequest.com/warship_d ... page_2.htm

Very good. Narrowing it down to one month is not bad!

I really like that camouflage scheme on Royal Sovereign. Simple yet bold.

Hi all,

I have some questions regarding the striking early Admiralty Disruptive Camouflage Scheme worn by HMS Resolution in 1942 as seen here:
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205119498
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205016080

There is also black and white video footage here showing the early days of the Eastern Fleet including H.M.S. Resolution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBK4HQtFRao

I intend to model her in the future in this colour scheme and have the Profile Morskie H.M.S. Resolution book which gives a colour profile and calls up the following colour references:

• ‘White’
• MS4A
• B6
• MS3
• MS1
• ‘Black’
• 507A

The MS1, ‘Black’ and 507A are quite difficult to tell apart in the colour profile provided in the Profile Morskie Book. Well at least they are on my copy anyway. In particular the MS1 and ‘Black’. My interpretation of it is as per below:

• All the decks (both planked and steel areas) are called up as being 507A

• Starboard side: the large dark splotch from the armoured conning tower forward reaching aft as far as ‘X’ Turret barbette including the casemate guns called up as MS1

• Starboard side: the small dark splotch on the hull extending up almost to ‘B’ Turret Barbette is called up as MS1

• Starboard side: The long dark sliver on the hull between ‘A’ and ‘B’ Turret, the dark splotch on the hull below ‘A’ Turret’s barrels and the last remaining dark splotch forward of the others below the anchor capstan are called up as ‘Black’

• Port Side, all the darkest splotches are called up as ‘Black’ with no MS1 evident at all on this side of the ship


My questions are as follows:


1. Is there documentary evidence or consensus among ‘those in the know‘ for the colour references called up in the Profile Morskie plans for this scheme?

2. Related to above and to my attempted interpretation of the colour profile drawing, have I got the areas of MS1 and ‘black’ on the starboard side identified correctly? (Or if they are not indeed MS1 and Black have I the lighter and darker colours the correct way around? They do ‘look’ that way in photos but that means little due to the well documented difficulties in interpreting colours from black and white photos or film)

3. Is there documentary evidence for the areas of planked deck being painted Dark Grey 507A? As I gather Second World War British Battleships typically had their planked decks ‘stained’ or ‘dulled’ or ‘darkened’ rather than actually being painted over, unlike the US Navy.

As stated I would like to model H.M.S. Resolution in this scheme in the future and would be interested to hear any thoughts on it?

I cannot get Colourcoats Paints shipped to my country which is massively frustrating. Especially knowing they exist and knowing the effort that has gone into ensuring their accuracy.

Therefore I will have to make-do with Humbrol paints. However I would like to have the pattern as correct as possible relative to itself, if that makes sense?! Thanks.