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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:02 pm 
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Sean TN,

Just to make sure you understand that the helmsman is INSIDE the armored barbette - the helm and lee helm are NOT outside in the pilot house. So, if you took a picture of the helmsman looking back, your picture would be of a curved, steel bulkhead. The walls of the armored barbette are 17" thick and its an oval shaped tube that extends up THROUGH the pilot house to the 05 Level above the pilot house.
Attachment:
BB62 OverHead View of Pilot House & Armored Barbette 1968.JPG
BB62 OverHead View of Pilot House & Armored Barbette 1968.JPG [ 56.61 KiB | Viewed 5490 times ]

This was taken in 1968, but the barbette & helm haven't moved an inch since then!!

Just thought I'd let you know :thinking:

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:10 pm 
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As Hank has pointed out, the helmsman's position was inside the armored coning tower, however the primary conning station and alternate helm was on the (I believe) O8 level for normal operations. Alaska was operated the same way as it allowed better all around visibility than from the conning tower level. I do have some photos of the coning tower if this is of any help (Missouri).

Cheers: Tom


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:55 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba; Canada
OK, ya'll got me.

First, I truly THANK YOU for your replies as well as the lessons you're teaching.

I'm sitting at my computer, whereas my B.O.G.P. (Bureau Of General Plans) or whatever they're called, are all rolled-up and downstairs for the moment. (we're still transitioning here from 'summer mode' with our boat on the water,,, to 'winterizing' which is retrieving said boat, winterizing it, and brining out the snow-blower) Then I can get back to modelling and such.

But (whatever the name is) that has all the windows (squared at the front) where I'm assuming a whack of officers hang-out, brag, and drink coffee. (The Bridge?) My point being, imagine standing at the starboard windows, looking across the room and out the port windows. Same/same for standing at the port windows, looking across the room and out the starboard windows.

Lastly, I'm assuming again that there is something somewhere around the 'middle' of that room, (playstation, game-boy, compass-rose, etc) that one would stand behind, looking forward out the windows towards wherever the bow of the ship were pointing.

(yes, I'm trying to have a bit of fun here, and humour this up a touch. No slam's involved....) But it's the 'interior view perspectives that I'm asking for.

Believe it or not, I also have an idea for a 'directors view' too. Sorta-like a stereograph, only different.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:13 pm 
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To get an idea of what the bridge of an Iowa was like is to look at the as commissioned Iowa there were no windows but just a walkway around the conning tower. There is no large space you can see across but a narrow space outboard of the coning tower. I'll see if I can find some photos of the bridge.

The conning tower and bridge area were quite cramped area!

Cheers: Tom


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:26 pm 
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Attachment:
Mo Bridge.jpg
Mo Bridge.jpg [ 390.97 KiB | Viewed 9270 times ]


Starboard side of the bridge, Missouri: Note the the cramped space and on the left the slit in the coning tower and the cover which can be cranked up from inside.

Cheers: Tom


Last edited by Fliger747 on Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:35 pm 
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Helm inside the coning tower, Missouri, from port side.
Attachment:
Mo helm.jpg
Mo helm.jpg [ 310.15 KiB | Viewed 9269 times ]


Note the Radar repeater is probably not displaying anything in actuality and the handles for cranking up the view port covers have been removed.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:45 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
Sean, you can get a digital set of BoGPs from the HNSA site:
New Jersey '84: https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads ... 8/bb62.pdf
Wisconsin '56: https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads ... 8/bb64.pdf

That way you can consult them even if the physical ones are rolled away!

You can see quite clearly how the armoured oval conning tower occupies much of the space enclosed by the big square windows. The easiest to envision the whole thing might be to trace the development of the Iowa bridges: the initial design was just the oval conning tower, with only a small unenclosed walkway wrapping around it. This walkway then got extended upwards an enclosed (on New Jersey only), before eventually being "squared" and expanded outwards to the form we see today.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:42 am 
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba; Canada
Gentlemen and Scholar's... the lot of ye'.

Thank you for both those photo's as well as the links. So much easier to look/see/plan. If I knew what I didn't know, I'd be dangerous.

Sean


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:57 am 
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I point out that the conning tower shape is 4 circular arcs arranged so that they are tangent.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:04 am 
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Interesting factoid, meaning it's not a true oval. I often use that technique in 3D design, pairs of tangent arcs. Perhaps that had something to do with the techniques of producing such heavy armor?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:09 pm 
I am currently building the MK 8 radar and MK 38 gun directors for my 1/96 scale USS Missouri as in 1945.

Can anyone advise the dimensions of the railings on the gun directors - height and diameter of stanchions, distance between lifelines, and also the same measurements of the railings for the rest of the superstructure.
As I understand it there were only two lifelines on the superstructure railings in 1945.

Thanks David


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:28 am 
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Guest wrote:
I am currently building the MK 8 radar and MK 38 gun directors for my 1/96 scale USS Missouri as in 1945.
Can anyone advise the dimensions of the railings on the gun directors - height and diameter of stanchions, distance between lifelines, and also the same measurements of the railings for the rest of the superstructure.
As I understand it there were only two lifelines on the superstructure railings in 1945.
Thanks David


Guest (David) -
You might consider joining the forum (I'll assume you have not) and share your build. One good source of information for building IOWA class BB's, esp. in 1/96 would be The Floating Drydock's EPlan Book USS MISSOURI (BB-63). The entire ship is drawn out in 1/8" = 1'-0" drawings (1/96 scale) giving both plan and elevations of all decks/levels, etc.

In reverse order:
1) The majority of lifelines found within the superstructure area consisted of (3) lifelines. The only areas I've found that have (2) lifelines were: (a) on the 04/05 Level right behind the Forward Stack; (b) the short, curved walkway area between the triple quad 40mm mounts amidships; (c) the Mk. 57 FC Tub after-access platform on the After Stack; (d) platforms accessing the Mk. 57/Mk. 51 GFCS Tubs on the After Main Battery Tower (3 pl.).

2) I have found no dimensions for lifelines on any of the GFCS rangefinder or director drawings - however, the lower two lifelines on the main deck were 7/16" dia. and the upper lifeline was 9/16" dia. - you could use that as a guide. There are U.S. Navy BuShip drawings available that give dimensional data for all stanchions, etc. used on WWII era ships - you might try looking up this information. I can share that an acquaintance who was a docent on USS WISCONSIN did measure some items on the forward Mk. 37 FC Director for me and the handrail was 1 1/4" dia. pipe - so, you could use that as a guide for scaling your various handrails. 1/96 scale would make that 0.013" dia. or 0.33mm dia. I think a 0.30mm dia. would work fine. This isn't rocket science!

3) As for heights of stanchions, distances between, etc. - you need to find scaled drawings of these FC directors (again, refer to the EPlan Book, etc.) and do the math.

Hope this helps,

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:57 pm 
Thanks for the tips.

David


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:08 pm 
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I'm trying to find a good color match for the circled/arrowed areas in the below pics.
I've been thinking of maybe Vallejo # 71.073 Metallic Black might work.
Or does anybody have a better suggestion? I only prefer to use Vallejo paints.


Attachments:
Firefox_Screenshot_2022-10-05T14-53-40.150Z.png
Firefox_Screenshot_2022-10-05T14-53-40.150Z.png [ 965.03 KiB | Viewed 8910 times ]
016196 (3).JPG
016196 (3).JPG [ 366.57 KiB | Viewed 8910 times ]
zzz1 (1).JPG
zzz1 (1).JPG [ 416.03 KiB | Viewed 8910 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:50 am 
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Not a lot of help, but somewhere in Picture post, someone had a nice build of the 1:200 Trumpy kit and explained how they did a very nice job on the barrels, I think there might have been some bronze or such slipped in there. The museum ships of which I have many photos are of no help here as they are merely painted black.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:19 am 
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I point out that this darker area is paint, not metal.

Looking at the Vallejo color charts German Yellow is the closest IMHO.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:03 pm 
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EJM, et al....

You're barking up the wrong (color) tree entirely!!! This area of the barrel was the "slide" area that is a NON-PAINTED, greased portion of the barrel. What you're attempting to do is show it painted which is incorrect!!! The museum ships all have this painted for preservation and do not display an accurate (operational) picture as Big Jim has pointed out. One other comment is that the pictures of IOWA that you show are during her firing training mission - the blowback from powder detonation always left the turrets/barrels/deck covered or coated with a dirty, oily residue that had to be cleaned up after securing from firing. This would tend to darken the brass on the barrel as shown in the photos you posted.

Here is a shot of BB62 in 1968 showing the right/center gun barrels of Turret 1 -
Attachment:
Clip of Turret 1 1968.JPG
Clip of Turret 1 1968.JPG [ 18.72 KiB | Viewed 8842 times ]

This portion has only grease applied to the brass, no paint.

Here is how I represented it in my 1:200 scale BB-62 model -
Attachment:
Turret 2_2 (1024x681).jpg
Turret 2_2 (1024x681).jpg [ 294.14 KiB | Viewed 8842 times ]


I believe I used Testors Brass Enamel with a small amount of flat black added, I can't exactly recall. A "dirty" brass would be appropriate. As for how they maintained this during the 1980s, I can't say, but prior to that (WWII, Korea, Vietnam) what I've described would be appropriate.

Hope this helps,

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:06 pm 
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Attachment:
Bloomers NJ.jpg
Bloomers NJ.jpg [ 190.94 KiB | Viewed 8842 times ]


A closeup of the NJ recoil area of the barrels. One can discern that some material scrapes up at each end of the recoil area against the ring of the bloomer. I know Hank Strub has a color photo of these lubed up with a yellowish looking grease, maybe a little lighter than the bronze and rust red mix I use for props. Hopefully Hank will post this as it's the best photo I have seen of the color of this. Makes me want to go back and modify my Missouri and Alaska.

Regards: Tom


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:22 pm 
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Tom,

Not sure if this is the photo you mentioned, but it does show Turret's 1/2 and how I did the "slide" area of the gun barrels -
Attachment:
Stbd Side Turrets 1 & 2.jpg
Stbd Side Turrets 1 & 2.jpg [ 250.42 KiB | Viewed 8842 times ]

As you can see, I individually "toned" each barrel as they aren't all identical. I think Turret 1's center gun is probably the best of the 6 as far as accuracy goes. The "shiny" brass as shown in my earlier reply was probably after the barrels had been freshly polished and greased, not after months at sea and firing, etc.

Hope this helps,

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:46 pm 
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Hank

I noticed you did the same thin on your 5” mount, though on the ships they are currently painted black. Thanks for the info!

Tom


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