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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:59 pm 
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Timmy C wrote:
lgmccauley wrote:
I have another question in regards to Missouri's flag halyards. This time it's where the aft flag halyards were tied off. The one source I have is the 3D book on the Missouri which shows them tied off to deck mounted eyebolts located along the railings on either side of the aft flag bag. I also have the FDD plan book and the photo set of the Gibbs & Cox model. The FDD plan book and plans show the aft flag bag, but there is no definitive location of the halyards termination point. The photo set shows no aft flagbag at all and the halyards seeming to be tied off to the adjacent railings. I'm trying to determine what is correct, so any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Larry


Mostly railings for the Iowa, if that helps: http://navsource.org/archives/01/061/016101c.jpg Flag bags under canvas covers, it seems.


Are those the after flag bags or the 5" practice loader? I thought the loader sat there but if it does then where are the flag bags??? I'm confused now

Okay, Here's two shots of NJ during her 45 refit. You can see the loader and one flag bag and a little platform in front of the bag.

http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016201b.jpg

http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016209p.jpg

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Ah, you're right, Cliffy, my bad!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Actually, Cliffy B's photos show the JERSEY's Flag Bag added late in the war after her upgrade to the tripod main mast; Timmy C's photo shows IOWA with her main mast (pole mast) as built. The single after flag bag was continued thru NEW JERSEY's Vietnam service. At that time, only 4 halyards were employed, but all tied off on a single rail provided on the forward side of the flag box. The photo shown (1945) incorporated a 2-bar rail deck mounted in front of the flag box as there were more halyards involved at that time. The rails would be where they were tied off (terminated).

Those photos are really great shots!!!

Hopes this helps,

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Hi! Building a CGI model of the Iowa 16 inch turret 1. Currently animating it. Can anyone tell me what it sounded like in the many decks of the turret? I really need: turret rotating, guns elevating, rammer noise, shell hoist, powder hoist, and anything else you have. All the videos i have found on 16 inch BB61 class ships have no sound. Maybe i missed one or two.

Thanks!

Keith


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Most of the noises inside the turrets were large electric motors. The guns firing sounded very different inside the turret, more of a "whumpf" and a lot of shaking. There are some turret sounds in this video but you'll have to be quick to capture them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stq3hnVq6jU

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 Post subject: BB61 turret cgi model
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:07 pm 
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Thanks! This will help a lot.

Keith


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:05 am 
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Hi!

I can't find any discussion abut Academy's USS Missouri in here, and I was wondering if anyone could share his opinions on the kit. It seems comparable to Tamiya's Missouri in terms of detail, but I'm no specialist to speak about dimensions, shape and other issues of historical accuracy.


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 Post subject: Iowa Class 893 feet?
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:39 pm 
Hi, my first message here. Have begun drawing a USS Iowa (BB61) model in 1:120 scale (I have a specific need for this scale).

Strange thing (for myself, anyway) today, perusing Dulin and Garzke's book "Battleships" the fold-out drawings of Iowa's Outboard Profile and Overhead View list a LOA of 893 feet. I had thought (and read 100s of times) that Iowa's length is 887'-3".

LOA applies to forward and aft furthermost hull dimensions, correct? (Pardon my ship terminology, it's not up to speed yet.)

Thought I was on top of the model drafting world a couple of days ago when I inserted NavSea BB62 (1984) drawings into the CAD program and, after some fiddling, got an ideal 887'-3" LOA and the 217 sections notated on the drawing came out to precisely 48" on/center.

Minutes ago I inserted the D&G drawings into the CAD program; there are problems. Thought I had better ask here before proceeding.

Thanks much,

Brian Chapman
Cedar Rapids, Iowa


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Would anybody tell me the differences of bulwark among these four battleships? Those pictures of USS Wisconsin are not clear enough.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:45 am 
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Which bulwarks are you asking about, the bow tubs or the one midships that protect the boats?
The Bow Tubs of each ship has been changed several time throughout their careers.

If you ask about a specific Iowa it might be easier to explain the changes that were made.

James


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Hello James, would you please tell me the difference between USS Missouri and USS Wisconsin when they were in WWII? BTW, I think the position of those windows and watertight doors on the superstructure was almost the same when they were in WWII, am I right?


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:35 am 
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W.H. Min wrote:
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Hello James, would you please tell me the difference between USS Missouri and USS Wisconsin when they were in WWII? BTW, I think the position of those windows and watertight doors on the superstructure was almost the same when they were in WWII, am I right?


This general question about the differences between the 4 IOWA class ships has been discussed at length various times throughout this thread. MISSOURI and WISCONSIN, while similar to a great extent, had differences as did the other two ships. To make a broad statement re. the windows (portholes) and watertight door locations is oversimplification. You really need to get some solid references to backup that claim. "Almost the same" is vague and what "windows"/doors are you asking about?

I would suggest a very good source of material that is almost a MUST for IOWA class modelers is The Floating Drydock EBook - USS MISSOURI BB-63 E-Plan book - this gives a descriptive illustrated narrative of the MISSOURI as of VJ Day in 1/8" scaled drawings from one end of the ship to the other. Some variations of the ships are discussed, but it's a detailed study of MISSOURI. You won't find this on any of the other ships anywhere. I will state that the four had variations from the onset that took place during construction and unless you can find a copy of the (+/-) 75 tons of actual construction blueprints required to build one of these ships, those variations will probably be left to history as these ships today have been vastly modified since that time. Many of the variations (IMHO) were due in part to shipyard inventories of materials on hand, individual builder's change orders, etc. - existing photos do show some of the differences without much trouble looking for them, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

Bottom line is that I've found that a lot of modelers on this forum are very specific about building their model to a specific date and that sometimes proves very difficult, especially when asking generalized questions. Simple answers are hard to substantiate.

Your first part of your question would simply be a long list of structural, electronic, and weapons location difference that may or may not be correct at this point. Getting back to the reference materials - there are publications on each of the ships that may help, but also may not completely answer this question - some in print, others out of print. Once again, not a simple answer.

I hope this helps, but I'm guessing it only muddies the waters....sorry, but it is what it is. But, I find the research is both educational and rewarding in most cases!!

Hank

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USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Today I received plans "The Battleship USS Iowa" by Witold Koszela from TopDrawings publishing. Likely, I'll attempt to model the 1990 version, in 1:120 scale.

Are there so many hull changes from 1943 to 1990 that it is a fruitless idea to build two decks, one for each era, so that they are interchangeable?

Thanks,

Brian Chapman
Cedar Rapids, Iowa / USA


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:42 am 
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Brian C. wrote:
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Are there so many hull changes from 1943 to 1990 that it is a fruitless idea to build two decks, one for each era, so that they are interchangeable?


Brian - In actuality, there have been no hull CHANGES, only modifications to the EXISTING ship, hull included. It's the same hull only we see external additions such as the overboard discharge covers, NIXIE openings on the stern, removal of the forward boat booms. The hull itself hasn't changed.

Now, if you're talking about the changes to the main deck and ABOVE, well YES! two separate models would be necessary to model the ship in say its WWII configuration and then the 1980s era version.

I looked up the Topdrawing you cited and can't comment on those as you can't open any of the booklets online - my suggestion is that you go to The Floating Drydock and purchase a set of the 1980s version of T.A.W.s IOWA blueprints and either reduce/enlarge them to the scale you intend to build your model (1:120) - you can more than likely find a Kinko's or UPS Store with a large format printer/copier where this can be done or if you know someone in the engineering/drafting fields, they can maybe help you out. 1:120 is rather large - I wish you luck. One further piece of advice: If you're going to spend the money on a model this large, spend the money UPFRONT doing research and purchase as much info about the ship as you can find before starting your construction. You can't rely on simply one source and expect to be successful.

Hope this helps,

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Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:02 am 
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Hank, hull "modifications," not "changes." Thanks! I'm catching on to ship terminology and concepts as I go along.

If it's not a copyright infraction (?), I could email you a couple or three of the TopDrawing drawings for you to inspect - I've scanned and inserted them into my CAD program, then re-scaled. They look good. I've been a fan of the Iowa Class for several decades and have collected many books (such as Dulin and Garzke) and photos. I just haven't attempted a model before. Devil's in the details, I'm assuming?

Mainly, right now, pending detail item research as it comes up, I'm researching exactly how to go about constructing such a model. Here's my thinking, would you or others here clue me in if I'm making a mistake?

CNC mill cut frames from 1/8 inch ABS plastic sheet (I have 1/4 inch on hand, but maybe that's overkill?) and plank the hull with 0.080 styrene plastic (I've got 4ft x 8ft sheets here). Am I on the right track?

And, strakes: On a model this size, I should plan to model them?

Thanks much,

Brian Chapman
Cedar Rapids, Iowa / USA


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:59 pm 
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Brian,

Since your model will be scratchbuilt from the bottom up, I would think that the plank on frame method would work well for this project. There are other builds on this forum (I can think of one cruiser model specifically) that are similar in construction - you'll just have to look over the various prior posts/topics/threads, etc. until you find what you need. While I was going to attempt the hull corrections to the Trumpeter 1:200 kit by that method (plastic planks, etc), I ended up taking a different route.

You could use the 1/8" thk. ABS and it might do the trick, but at 1:120 I would almost think that the 1/4" thk. might be a safer bet. It's not like you're going to climb in and float off down the creek, right?? :big_grin: As for the styrene strips - will they adhere to the ABS?? As with any POB/POF model, you will need to taper the bulkheads/frames where the hull narrows or changes from a straight line so that the bulkhead follows the curvature of the hull lines - and this can be very tricky. Time consuming to say the least. I believe you mentioned a CAD program - are you able to do a 3D model of the parts? If so, that might be the way to go - there is another IOWA class build on this forum by Big Jim Slade and he's doing a modern IOWA in 1:96, I think. I'm not sure what his design program is, but you may want to visit his posts and see how his CG model is progressing. This way, if you either printed the bulkheads on a 3D printer or CNC machine cut them, they would (I'm guessing) be correctly shaped for the location that they will occupy. I would think that by this method you will also require a center keel (as in the real ship) and lay out your frames along the keel, securing them, etc; perhaps also, a mid-deck that would be hidden but supply longitudinal support within the hull of the model, say halfway between the keel and main deck. Just thinking here. I know that from the past, the Sterling MISSOURI kit, balsa/basswood planks on bulkhead @ 1:192 scale, was a fairly nice result if you took your time and followed the instructions/plans. I'm guessing again, that with using styrene planks you will still need filler and a lot of sanding, etc. in order to end up with a smooth surface on the hull. Again, I mention Floating Drydock as they have a hull lines set of plans for the IOWAs that may be of benefit in this effort. I just don't have any experience with the drawings you've mentioned from TopDrawings. And the copyright issue, I have no idea about that.

One other note - do spend the time to read thru other IOWA builds as there is a HUGE amount of experience and learning to be had that others have made available. Don't limit yourself just to the IOWA class - I find myself going back thru lots of posts that are years old in order to answer a guestion that has already been published - just needs to be found!

I'm curious, however - what's with the 1:120 scale? Why not stick to something std. or common (1:192, 1:96, 1:144, etc)? I don't know of anyone who has parts or equipment sets you'll need for this build in that scale - I could be wrong, I'm just not familiar at all with that scale.

Other than the above, I wish you luck - do begin a build log so we can all see how this progresses. And keep this in mind - the IOWA is not that far away on the Left Coast at LA Ports - 1st hand reference material!!!!

Hope this helps,

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:46 am 
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W.H.min
There aren't a lot of differences between USS Missouri and USS Wisconsin in WWII.
The main difference is the Missouri carried the SK2 radar and Wisconsin carried the SK1
I haven't studied them both to be able to tell you in specific detail about hatches, watertight doors and portholes.
Most of those would be the same on both ships.

Here is an example of a difference:
Wisconsin has a venturi on her bow tub:
http://navsource.org/archives/01/064/016456v.jpg

Missouri doesn't have the venturi:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016309c.jpg

Which of the two are you working on or are you doing both?

The Floating Drydock's Missouri plan book is a great resource for a WWII Iowa.
It has most of the minor details that drawings don't cover.

James


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:28 am 
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Hank, your post is a big help, and I thank you much for it.

My first calling is railroading, and in an odd scale there, no less. 1:120 (one inch = 10 feet is appealing to me, just the 'right' size). During my journalism days, I wrote dozens of stories about Iowa's 1984 return to active duty, beginning in 1980 with a visit to Philadelphia and the reserve fleet. Our tour guides were a couple of eager ensigns, iirc, and we prowled Iowa at will. Great experience. Also, visited her at Pascagoula, Miss., during renovation and returned there for her re-commissioning (Adm. McCrea and wife were there!) So, here I am, attempting to combine two of my interests, railroading and Iowa, in one scale.

I'm part of a tiny modeler's group hoping to allow TT scale survive, and, with some luck, thrive. I'm attempting to create a retirement business based on the scale, and it occurred to me that Iowa, docked and served by rail, would be a great way to attract interest to TT scale at model railroad shows. Although, I'm guessing the dockside rail action would have to be fictional – I haven't found photos depicting such.

I've begun taking notes (copy/paste) here:

1 - Song's build of 1:200 Missouri
2 - This thread, all 167 pages of "Calling all USS Iowa class . . ." (gulp)

And, I'll go find Big Jim Slade's project as soon as I post this note.

POB/POF model? Would you elaborate, I don't know those acronyms? With drawing in 3D (are frame and bulkhead synonymous?) cutting the bulkheads to fit the taper of the hull should be pretty easy. I'm going to try to apply 'skin' in the drawing to the hull frames in several large sections. 3D at command will unwrap these sections in flat 2D plan view and the shapes can then be cut from styrene. . . . Anyway, we'll see what develops.

My CNC mill table is 4 in. x 12 in. I'll have to cut the bulkheads in two pieces: [[ (with the long axis horizontal) and epoxy them together, in this way a mid-deck is created. I'll notch the bottom piece to fit and secure the keel.

Two measurements on my mind to discover:

1 - The width and height of the keel. From photos it appears to be something like 6 feet wide. Or, in model form, likely it should be arbitrarily oversize to create strength? Maybe cut one similar to Song's?
2 - The hull plates rise a certain distance above the main deck and the teak overlay . . . maybe 8 inches?

When I've got something to show drawing-wise, I'll start a build log to include drawings and subsequent actual fabricated parts and their assembly, hoping someone here will have enough interest to correct me as I go along.

I'm going to learn a ton from this project. I've never used my CNC lathe, and I've not quite finished assembling and testing a DLP/SLP 3D printer. I have created double-sided photo etching artwork before, so that might be a help down the road. I've switched to a new software package, Autodesk Fusion 360, which includes CAD, CAM, 3D Printing and more all in one. I'll struggle along and hope to get up and running with it. Yeah, I better learn a lot or I'm in deep trouble.

I'm sure thankful I found The Model Ship Forum and the Iowa Class thread!

Brian Chapman
Cedar Rapids, Iowa

P.S. – I don't have a creek nearby to test Iowa . . . but the Cedar River isn't far away ;-)

P.P.S. – Just discovered a couple of Randy M's 3D drawings in the middle of this thread, can't wait until I get there with my note-taking.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:23 am 
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Brian,

Well, you've certainly chosen a quite unique corner of ship modeling - don't know that anyone has gone in that direction before. I will address your last post in (I hope) the order in which you made it:

Somewhere, I thought I saw a photo of one of the IOWAs pierside and a RR track close by - almost within 25' of the edge of the pier. It may have been WWII era, but drydocks and naval piers have had RR access here and there; it certainly would make sense from a logistical point of view both for servicing and construction.

POF - Plank on Frame
POB - Plank on Bulkhead - in this case probably closer than POF in that POF is normally the style of construction in wooden model ships as the frames are almost adjacent to each other, not spaced wider apart as in a steel hulled ship.

Glad you found Randy M's 3D Solidwork renderings - they are really great drawings.

Just a comment here - your keel can be whatever size would seem appropriate to give structural support throughout - it doesn't have to follow the actual ship's size as it will never been seen anyway, simply a means to support the various frames, etc.

Will be looking for photos one day and see how this project takes shape!

I may have missed something, not sure :big_grin:

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:37 pm 
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Hank,

Thanks for the follow-up . . . the more, the better.

Yesterday, I did what I should have done first: Ordered 1/96 Iowa 1987 drawings from TFD. Excited to receive them, kinda like a kid early on Christmas morn. Maybe an older guy like me shouldn't admit to such giddiness. ;-)

Brian

Brian Chapman
Cedar Rapids, Iowa / USA


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