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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:23 pm 
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send me an email and I can send you pictures from inside the conning tower.

James


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Regarding Life Raft Holders question by Big Jim Slade.

There is a quite frequently published photo of the rear deck of the New Jersey at the Puget Sound Navy Yard on 24th June 1945. I have accessed this photo on the Navsource site. This photo has good details of the Aircraft Crane and Catapults. Underneath the catapults are the frames for the Carley Floats. The floats have been removed - for servicing/replenishing supplies perhaps. The frames show up clearly how the float seats in grooves in the wooden mounts and I imagine the floats would then be tied down with rope.

David


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:40 pm 
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David,

If I'm not mistaken, BigJimSlade is making a computer model of MISSOURI in her current configuration, not WWII. Perhaps he should have stated that in his request for drawings. The life raft enclosures of the modern MISSOURI (as are true in a 4 ships of the class) have NOTHING to do with the WWII era life rafts.

Some of the details he was looking for are available in The Floating Drydock's E-Book USS MISSOURI PLAN BOOK. That is THE go-to reference for anyone building an IOWA class model regardless of time frame.

Hope this helps,

_________________
HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:34 am 
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Hi all,

If you have been to the 3D print screws thread, you might have seen my design of the Iowa-class screw set in 1/350th scale that is available for 3D printing on Shapeways, and now I'm rescaling it to 1/200th scale. I would need to have the measurement (in centimeter) of the Trumpeter parts listed below:
- diameter of the plastic screw shaft
- diameter of the screw hub, or the strut bearing, as these have the same size anyway.
- depth of the shaft hole in the screw.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Aur

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1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

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1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Aur wrote:

Quote:
If you have been to the 3D print screws thread, you might have seen my design of the Iowa-class screw set in 1/350th scale that is available for 3D printing on Shapeways, and now I'm rescaling it to 1/200th scale. I would need to have the measurement (in centimeter) of the Trumpeter parts listed below:
- diameter of the plastic screw shaft
- diameter of the screw hub, or the strut bearing, as these have the same size anyway.
- depth of the shaft hole in the screw.


I hope you're not planning on recreating Trumpeter's inaccurate IOWA class screws. Both their plastic (kit supplied) and additional metal versions are not correctly shaped or angled.

I can (perhaps post tomorrow a.m.) provide you with the diameters and depth that you ask for. FYI, the shafts (kit supplied) are not plastic, they are metal.

Hope this helps,

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:59 pm 
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look at his thread on 3d props. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=165961


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:25 pm 
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You can also click the blue 3D print screws thread text as it is inserted with the link.

As for the design, I intended to make it as a replacement for the Trumpeter Iowa and Missouri kits, as I am very well aware of the inaccuracy of the plastic screws, their knock-off white metal offering, and G Factor brass version. Pontos offers brass screws in their advanced set, and although they look very nice, they seem to be another copy of the Trumpeter parts. At least from what I could see in the available photos. Anyone who bought some, or all, of these may want to make a comparison shot of the 4 versions for this! :heh:

My design is based on data from the trial document EJ Foeth found, and it provides things like diameter and pitch figures. I had to rely entirely on photos for the blade outline and hub shape, but I would say the result is accurate enough.

@Hank, I really appreciate your help with the measurements, if you would be able to.

The 1/200 version would have thinner blades than 1/350 for detail plastics, and I will check how the thickness will work out for bronze/brass printing.

Regards,
Aur

_________________
On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:38 am 
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I just uploaded a test model for metal printing, and this is how it looks like after the blades were thickened.

Image
(Shapeways render in polished brass.)

Sprues will be necessary to meet Shapeways' maximum part count requirement of 2.
The shaft holes will need to be resized according to the new measurements.

_________________
On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:43 am 
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Aur (DavidP),

My mistake - I should have gone to the link you provided. Those props look very nice, indeed!!!

OK, here are two of the three dimensions you requested:

Shaft (metal) diameter - 0.095" (2.43mm)
Base of Center Hub (of my metal replacement screws) - 0.19" (4.826mm)
The depth of the shaft hole in the center hub I can't measure as my shafts are already in place - BUT - I would make them No Less Than 1/8" deep as you should have room to drill out the hub at least that amount. Perhaps 3/16" might even be workable.

Hope this helps,

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:02 am 
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BB62vet wrote:
Aur (DavidP),

My mistake - I should have gone to the link you provided. Those props look very nice, indeed!!!

OK, here are two of the three dimensions you requested:

Shaft (metal) diameter - 0.095" (2.43mm)
Base of Center Hub (of my metal replacement screws) - 0.19" (4.826mm)
The depth of the shaft hole in the center hub I can't measure as my shafts are already in place - BUT - I would make them No Less Than 1/8" deep as you should have room to drill out the hub at least that amount. Perhaps 3/16" might even be workable.

Hope this helps,

Hank

Thank you very much for taking the time to measure the parts for me. I think I'll just make the shaft hole as deep as the design allows, as this would also save material and reduce final price.

I'll let you know how the design works out.

Thanks again,
Aur

_________________
On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:03 pm 
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This is what I got working off the original plans for the Iowa and NJ. I wonder how close the Tamiya and Trumpeter kits are, especially considering how off their hull shapes are.

I realized that i had posted the wrong propeller. (So many propeller files). So I have edited to show one from the NJ/IA.

The point of posting this is to illustrate how sharp the edges are. If you made this into 1:200 scale it would be sharper than a razor blade.

So you have to do some overscale for modeling.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2018-01-23 at 1.09.16 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-01-23 at 1.09.16 AM.png [ 294.64 KiB | Viewed 324 times ]


Last edited by bigjimslade on Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:15 pm 
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If you go to Page 134 on this site, about 3/4 way down the page, James M has some links listed. Open up the link for USS Missouri 1944 and there is an excellent view of the propellers. The shape of the blades is very clear. I don't think they are as thick as the David P example and are different shape to bigjims. I hope this is constructive and helps to get props as accurate as possible.
David


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Attachment:
Prop.jpg
Prop.jpg [ 85.31 KiB | Viewed 321 times ]
BB63Missouri wrote:
If you go to Page 134 on this site, about 3/4 way down the page, James M has some links listed. Open up the link for USS Missouri 1944 and there is an excellent view of the propellers. The shape of the blades is very clear. I don't think they are as thick as the David P example and are different shape to bigjims. I hope this is constructive and helps to get props as accurate as possible.


I posted the wrong picture. Edited for the correct one above. He is an example of the prop blade profile.


Last edited by bigjimslade on Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:48 pm 
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I have nothing to do with the props except for providing a link to Aur's thread of designing & making them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:48 am 
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bigjimslade wrote:
Yes, the actual propellers are different from the designed one. The inner ones were originally 17'. Then redesigned at 18'. The actually installed ones were 18'-3".

Although you've edited your post, I've put it here as a reference.
I'm curious about how you got the 18'3" diameter of the 5-bladers. I used War Service Fuel Consumption of U.S. Naval Surface Vessels and David Taylor Research Center First of Class Trials documents of the USS Iowa as my reference, and they both have the inboard 5-bladed screws as 17ft. The former has the data from 1943-1944, and the latter from Iowa's August 1985 sea trial, after her modernization. It also notes that Iowa (in 1985) was equipped with the same screw configuration as that on New Jersey in 1943. I don't know if any of the Iowa-class ships ever had their screws changed, but from what I could gather, they seem to be the same since WWII.

As for your updated photo, that looks really good! Do the original plans include blade and hub outlines? And did you use the cross section profiles to construct the blades? The CAD software you have is certainly much more superior to what I use - Autodesk 123D Design. This has rather limited ability to handle complex shapes of the screws apart from limited 3D tools, so I had to adapt and adjust many things. Even so, Steve (Model Monkeys) managed to make magic with his designs using the same program. :thumbs_up_1:

The Shapeways render shows the design after the blades were thickened for metal printing. They require the design to have a minimum thickness of 0.8mm, so this is the best it can look to be printable in brass/bronze materials. On the other hand, the design for frosted detail plastic printing would have much thinner blades (just like the 3D pics in my thread), as the minimum thickness allowed is 0.3mm (and even less for areas like blade tip and the pointy hub cap). This is an option for those who wish to have a more to-scale version and do the paint work themselves.

For my design, I drafted the blade outline directly from this photo, along with additional adjustments from many other: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/063/016300h.jpg

Regards,
Aur

_________________
On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:12 am 
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They have hub outlines but no blade outlines. You have to make the frames, position them, calculate the rotation, and derive the outline from that. The 5-blades are 17. My misteak. THE outboards are 18-3 and were 17 and 18 at one time in the design. I would post those but, unfortunately, when I went to NARA for that, the printer was not working so I had to take screen pictures with a camera. So it takes a huge mosaic to see the thing.

Note that what I have here would take a lot of modification to be used in a model,


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Hi guys,

I came across a problem while working on the new measurements from Hank. I was aware just by looking at a glance that the Trumpeter screws have narrower (smaller) hub bases than the Tamiya ones, but I didn't know it would be as much as 1.124mm!!!!! (Tamiya diameter converted to 1/200 scale) :faint: :faint: :faint:
I'm now suspecting the Trumpeter part diameter to be too small compared to the Tamiya part, drydock photos, and also bigjimslade's model in the screenshot. If you based your design on the original drawings, then I'm sure Trumpeter is the culprit (as always).

If you happen to have the exact diameter of the actual hub base, please let me know it. The diameter of the strut bearing should also work, but it, too, has to be accurate.

Now the problem is deciding whether to design it inaccurately to fit the Trumpeter parts, or follow the correct measurement, meaning that modelers will need to modify the struts themselves. Another option would be designing additionally the whole struts as separate parts included in the set, so the screws can stay correct. Lots of work if that were to be the choice. I've come up with other plans as well, but any thoughts about this would be appreciated.

This is a screenshot of the disaster:
Image
(Left is the Tamiya diameter, right the Trumpeter, both in 1/200)

Aur

_________________
On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Aur,

The hub diameter I posted (0.19" dia.) was taken off the set of props I purchased from Keith Bender back in 2015 - I think he machines his brass props from the actual USN engineering blueprints, but it's just a guess. Here is a comparison of his (brass) props vs the Trumpeter kit props (plastic) and Trumpeter Add Ons (metal):
Attachment:
Prop Comparison_1 (Large).JPG
Prop Comparison_1 (Large).JPG [ 72.4 KiB | Viewed 264 times ]

Hope this helps,

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Hello Hank,

Could you please measure the Trumpeter parts' hub diameter, so I could compare it to Keith's? I also noted that Keith made the hub cap noticeably shorter and smaller towards the tip than the kit parts, and in actual photos it appears to be the same, but I can't say for sure since it's too unclear. I would appreciate bigjimslade, or anyone else who could offer the measurements of the hub from the original plans. Scan of those specific plans would be even more useful, if it is possible. If I have the hub outline, most of the problems would be solved.

Also, Floating Drydock has drawings of the screws for sale, and I would like to know if anyone knows what's included in there and the accuracy of it.

Bu-BB61-14 USS IOWA CLASS1942 5 BLADE PROPELLER (Inboard) VAR$14.00
Bu-BB61-15 USS IOWA CLASS1942 4 BLADE PROPELLER (Outboard) VAR$14.00

Their website: http://floatingdrydock.com/Bu.htm

Regards,
Aur

_________________
On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Aur, would the Booklet of General Plans for the Iowa class or Warship Data #3 USS Iowa be of any use to determine the hub dimensions?


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