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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:52 am 
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DavidP wrote:
Aur, would the Booklet of General Plans for the Iowa class or Warship Data #3 USS Iowa be of any use to determine the hub dimensions?


This is what I extracted from the microfilm.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2018-01-24 at 1.17.31 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-01-24 at 1.17.31 AM.png [ 316.4 KiB | Viewed 451 times ]


The Booklet of General plans is not suitable for measurements in nearly all cases. They are like the maps in amusement parts: they show where things are relative to each other but that it is. They are highly imprecise and in many cases wildly inaccurate.


Last edited by bigjimslade on Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:24 am 
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DavidP wrote:
Aur, would the Booklet of General Plans for the Iowa class or Warship Data #3 USS Iowa be of any use to determine the hub dimensions?

I checked the first one, and it appears to be a little too crude to measure. The other one isn't available online. Thanks for the suggestions, anyway.

bigjimslade wrote:

This is what I extracted from the microfilm.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2018-01-24 at 1.17.31 AM.png


I did the math for this, and turns out, it is 5.72 mm in 1/200. At 5.95 mm, Tamiya wins over the Trumpeter and Keith's part! :heh: :woo_hoo:
Since I eyeballed the hub shape for my 1/350 version, I would design a new hub in accordance with your extract.

@Hank, if you would, please measure the plastic strut bearing diameter, in case they are different from Keith's hub base. In the photos I have, the screw hub base appears to be slightly larger than the strut behind it, so if the strut isn't too small, then there is no need to adjust the screws.

Aur

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1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:30 am 
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Aur wrote:

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@Hank, if you would, please measure the plastic strut bearing diameter, in case they are different from Keith's hub base. In the photos I have, the screw hub base appears to be slightly larger than the strut behind it, so if the strut isn't too small, then there is no need to adjust the screws.


Aur - I already have the shafts in place on the hull. I can't give you an inside diameter. Sorry!

Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:57 am 
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BB62vet wrote:

Aur - I already have the shafts in place on the hull. I can't give you an inside diameter. Sorry!

Hank

Hank,

My apologies if I mistakenly indicated the part....I was referring to the outer strut section here:

Image

Would this be possible to measure as attached on the model?
I'm just wondering whether this will be different from the hub base of the kit or Keith's.

Thank you very much,
Aur

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On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


Last edited by Aur on Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:58 am 
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Aur wrote:
Also, Floating Drydock has drawings of the screws for sale, and I would like to know if anyone knows what's included in there and the accuracy of it.

Bu-BB61-14 USS IOWA CLASS1942 5 BLADE PROPELLER (Inboard) VAR$14.00
Bu-BB61-15 USS IOWA CLASS1942 4 BLADE PROPELLER (Outboard) VAR$14.00


So funny they actually sell those drawings; completely missed them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:03 am 
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EJFoeth wrote:
Aur wrote:
Also, Floating Drydock has drawings of the screws for sale, and I would like to know if anyone knows what's included in there and the accuracy of it.

Bu-BB61-14 USS IOWA CLASS1942 5 BLADE PROPELLER (Inboard) VAR$14.00
Bu-BB61-15 USS IOWA CLASS1942 4 BLADE PROPELLER (Outboard) VAR$14.00


So funny they actually sell those drawings; completely missed them.

Indeed! I wonder what is included in there. If there were blade drawings, cross sections, hub profile and such, then that would be interesting. I don't think someone would have these plans in hands though...considering their usefulness in general model making.

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On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:05 am 
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I'd expect that these drawings contain all the info to make a good 3D model, including sectional information (table of offsets). Proof of the pudding is in the eating...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:14 am 
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EJFoeth wrote:
I'd expect that these drawings contain all the info to make a good 3D model, including sectional information (table of offsets). Proof of the pudding is in the eating...

Who's the first to taste? :lol_1:
It's also interesting because the plans are instantly delivered online... :thinking:
Edit: not sure if they do online sending. I might have to email them about it.
I'll look into it.

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On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:31 am 
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EJFoeth wrote:
I'd expect that these drawings contain all the info to make a good 3D model, including sectional information (table of offsets). Proof of the pudding is in the eating...


I'd wager you get a full set of cross sections and have to calculate the twist yourself. The cross sections on the Micro film show offsets and distances as in the sample I posted previously.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:19 am 
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The prop shaft is 23" in diameter if that helps. I had more information about the bearing sizes, but can't find the very old post on WorldAffairsboard.com.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Aur wrote:
Quote:
Would this be possible to measure as attached on the model?
I'm just wondering whether this will be different from the hub base of the kit or Keith's.


OK, got it! I'll get the micrometer out tonight and get that diameter for you - also, may make a picture of the model as it sits right now.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Thanks everyone for the help. I'll convert all the actual measurements into scale and determine how the design can be made.

@Hank, thanks for your help, and I would be happy to see some pics of your beautiful model, too! :thumbs_up_1:

I contacted Floating Drydock, and they do offer file sharing via email, so I'll probably get those drawings.

Aur

_________________
On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:50 am 
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Aur,

The outer diameter of the outer shaft (as you indicated in your photo) is 0.2150" (5.46mm). Here is the stbd side of the model as it is today (w/o screws):
Attachment:
DSC_0179 - resized.JPG
DSC_0179 - resized.JPG [ 179 KiB | Viewed 317 times ]

Inboard Shaft Alley:
Attachment:
DSC_0177 - resized.JPG
DSC_0177 - resized.JPG [ 181.77 KiB | Viewed 317 times ]


Hope this helps,

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Thanks for taking the time to measure these, Hank! At this diameter, the screw base will exceed the strut by 0.245 mm, which is absolutely fine. Now I should have all the necessary info to start working on the new 1/200 version. :)

Cheers,
Aur

_________________
On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:25 am 
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Location: Bavaria, Germany
Hello all

I am sure a lot have seen the announcement of a new, to me soo far unknown company called Joy Yard to come out with a 1/350 Scale Missouri (1945). They have now added a new section to their page showing test shots. Plastic pics were also shown elsewhere on the web already. Is there anybody here who speaks/reads Chineese and can check if there is a delivery date mentioned already. To be quite honest, the pictures alone are breath taking...

http://www.joy-yard.com/newsdetail_818477.html

cheers
Uwe


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:52 am 
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My oh my! If they're able to pull it off, it will be one heck of a model. I'm lookin forward to see their price point and delivery schedule. There's no doubt but the ability to go from 3D design, 3D print test and CNC mold production using the same data makes creating models like this a definite possibility. There is a point of diminishing returns with Styrene/resin in 1:350. At some point the parts no longer have the heft to support themselves and you end you end up breaking more than building. Just because something can be done, doesn't mean you should do it. I wish them luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:45 pm 
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I need help . Can any body give me the diameter of the tubing, making up the frame of the aircraft crane. I am building a 1/96 scale Missouri and need the diameter of the frame tubing so I can select the correct size of brass rod in order to make the crane. Just the diameter of the four main lengths of tubing making up the crane please. I can guestimate the cross pieces. Thanks.
David


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:48 pm 
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David wrote:
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I need help . Can any body give me the diameter of the tubing, making up the frame of the aircraft crane. I am building a 1/96 scale Missouri and need the diameter of the frame tubing so I can select the correct size of brass rod in order to make the crane. Just the diameter of the four main lengths of tubing making up the crane please. I can guestimate the cross pieces. Thanks.


You're building a 1/96 scale MISSIOURI and you DON'T have either a print copy or an e-plan version of The Floating Drydock USS MISSOURI Plan Book??????? By now EVERYONE should know that this is THE BIBLE for drawings concerning the IOWA class battleship when trying to build a model - regardless of scale. And....it's drawings are all 1/8" scale (1/96).

Now, if I'm wrong and you DO have a version of this book then you should have the drawing of the A/C Crane in hand. While it's inadvisable to dimension real items from a drawing (dimensions not withstanding) in this case - it being a model - I would think that would be acceptable.

If you're going thru all the pains of building a 1/96 scale MO, then I would think that "guesstimating" the other parts of the crane would be counter-productive. Why not get it ALL correct?

You could also go to Floating Drydock and purchase a copy of the USS MASSECHEUSETTS Air Craft Crane blueprints as it was similar. Whether or not the main frame sizes are in the Bill of Materials I can't confirm, but it's the only plan I've seen available for the newer U.S. battleships. I would suspect that the cranes were constructed from the same plans.

Keep in mind that the IOWAs had the A/C cranes modified/rebuilt in the 1950s with gusset plates that had triangular shaped cutouts in the metal. BB62/BB63 had theirs modified (I think) 1953-54; BB-61 had hers done 1951/52. BB-64 - ukn. This is shown clearly in the photo of IOWA in 05/52:
Attachment:
BB-61 AC Crane 1952_1.JPG
BB-61 AC Crane 1952_1.JPG [ 28.81 KiB | Viewed 126 times ]


Hope this helps,

_________________
HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:24 am 
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Thanks for your reply and help BB62vet.

In my research I have been unable to find any dimensions of the crane frame parts.

Yes, I do have the Floating Drydock Plan Book. I purchased it in the mid nineties when I made my 1/192 scale USS Missouri. For that model I estimated the size of brass rod for construction of the crane. I reduced the crane plan in the handbook by half, to 1/192 scale and made the crane from that.
I have the blueprint of the crane from the USS Massachusetts BB-59 but the dimensions are not shown.
In the scale I am working on, 1/16" brass rod works out to 6" diameter full size, and 2mm brass rod works out to 7 1/2" full size. I am NOT a rivet counter, but just wondered if someone could give me the diameter of the main frame tubes I can make a judgement on what size to use and yes, guestimate the size on the other parts from photos. I do not expect any one to climb all over the crane to measure all the other pieces.
I live in Melbourne, Australia and can't just pop over to check out the cranes that are still remaining on ships in the US, so I thought someone on here may be close enough to actually measure the diameter. In my searches of the internet I have discovered that USS Alabama and USS North Carolina still have their cranes in position. I realise that they have the cranes with the later reinforcing gussets welded on them.
Thanks again for your help.
David


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:49 am 
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David,

No, it would be hard to "pop over" to one of the museum ships for a survey from your location. But - you could inquire from the ship's staff and ask for THEM to measure the crane and send you their findings. Here are the links to the BB-55, BB-59, and BB-60 websites:
USS NORTH CAROLINA - http://www.battleshipnc.com/contact/
USS MASSECHEUSETTS - http://battleshipcove.org/
USS ALABAMA - http://www.ussalabama.com/staff-listing/

I would think that one of the staff could help you out if you explain what your doing and what you need. If you do contact them (especially NORTH CAROLINA) - ask if they have any engineering drawings on file and whether they could make a copy of the appropriate sheet and mail it to you.

The other alternative is to simply use the dimensions you've already mentioned or if your BB-59 crane blueprint is printed out TO SCALE, then you could use that information.

Hope this helps,

_________________
HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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